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<blockquote data-quote="jdrakeh" data-source="post: 5012549" data-attributes="member: 13892">You're refuting a point that I never made. I did not state that 3.5 (or 3.0) lacked rules for non-combat action resolution. I specifically referred to OD&amp;D/AD&amp;D 1e, since you explicitly held those editions up as supporting non-combat action resolution better than 4e, despite the fact that 4e has rules for non-combat action resolution and those systems don't (aside from Thief skills). 2e has exactly five pages of rules governing proficiencies in the PHB. Two of those pages deal entirely with weapon (i.e., combat) proficiencies. Compare this to the 11 pages of non-combat skills present in D&amp;D 4e's PHB. D&amp;D 4e edges out the 2e rules for such things by six whole pages. All of that is simply not true. At this point, I'm inclined to believe that you haven't actually read the 4e PHB, as that isn't at all what the rules actually say.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="jdrakeh, post: 5012549, member: 13892"] You're refuting a point that I never made. I did not state that 3.5 (or 3.0) lacked rules for non-combat action resolution. I specifically referred to OD&D/AD&D 1e, since you explicitly held those editions up as supporting non-combat action resolution better than 4e, despite the fact that 4e has rules for non-combat action resolution and those systems don't (aside from Thief skills). 2e has exactly five pages of rules governing proficiencies in the PHB. Two of those pages deal entirely with weapon (i.e., combat) proficiencies. Compare this to the 11 pages of non-combat skills present in D&D 4e's PHB. D&D 4e edges out the 2e rules for such things by six whole pages. All of that is simply [I]not true[/I]. At this point, I'm inclined to believe that you haven't actually read the 4e PHB, as that isn't at all what the rules actually say. [/QUOTE]

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