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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Kafen" data-source="post: 5012576" data-attributes="member: 11273">Aroo? <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":P" title="Stick out tongue    :P"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":P" /> Looks like you were talking about d20 to me. And for the record, Dragon Mag was the official core rules update system for 2e. While I think it sucked, the result is a tone of core rules for out of combat events. jdrakeh, you can not ignore the action costs of those skills without affecting the balance of the game because the system is based on encounters. That is what you are ignoring. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />rjdafoe, if they had a valid point - I would love to hear it. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":P" title="Stick out tongue    :P"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":P" /> I gave 4e a try...and continue to try it for my friends sake, but the simple truth is that 4e does not support non-combat events beyond a few pages. And, I never do anything halfway. If you are going free-style RP, you should go free style. If you are going with rules, you should not go with a system that gives you like maybe a dozen options for non-combat RP with zero game breaking influence. That is the fatal flaw of the encounter powers system. It just does not stand up very well in comparison to the older systems when it comes to house rules. In the old systems, we could dump what we liked in the skill systems while keeping the core classes intact for basic balance....which is not an option in 4e. Heck, even d20 suffered from that point to a degree, but the core classes remained balanced. I guess if I had to boil it down to one line, I would say that the old systems had viable non-combat mechanics while 4e should be held liable for its non-combat mechanics forcing players into a combat state to enact non-combat events. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":P" title="Stick out tongue    :P"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":P" /> EDIT: I will add this, the people that find a way to remove action based mechanics without upsetting overall game balance from a mandatory encounter/action based system like 4e should be on WOTC's payroll. ...Mind you, I actually like the Powers 4e system itself for Supers game as a general theory.  That would flat out rock my world. The skill system could stand to be gutted, but I would love to see a Supers version of 4e come out if anyone can fix the skill system.</blockquote>

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