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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
4E/3E Combat Time Question...
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<blockquote data-quote="Dragonblade" data-source="post: 4172116" data-attributes="member: 2804"><p>Multiple attacks at high levels, plus spells and buffs.</p><p></p><p>High level characters often had more than one attack. Assuming a party of four characters composed of the traditional fighter, rogue, cleric, wizard. You have 3 characters that will potentially have multiple attacks by level 10. Each one requiring a separate attack and damage roll. In 4e, only area attacks really require multiple attack rolls but usually only one damage roll. Plus 4e has less fiddly modifiers that have to be calculated in combat.</p><p></p><p>Speaking of modifiers, buff spells are the worst. As casters add buff spells, you have to calculate the different bonus, determine what will and will not stack with what and so on. Then if you get hit with a dispel magic, you potentially have to recalculate everything. Buffs that target ability scores are the worst, since upping or decreasing an ability has a ripple effect across your entire character. If your Dex goes up, it affects your initiative, your AC, your Reflex save and multiple skills.</p><p></p><p>Likewise, monsters often had spells and spell like abilities that simply reference the spell in the PHB. For an ad-hoc or on the fly encounter, the game would come to a screeching halt while the DM went out and looked up spells to see what the monster would and should cast. This is further compounded again by the buff issue because monsters would of course buff and debuff just like PCs.</p><p></p><p>In my 4e playtest games, 4e combat not only spanned more rounds, but were over in less real world time than 3e combats.</p><p></p><p>My group played through the entire Second Son 4e fan adventure in a little over 6 hours. We had 7 multiple round combat encounters plus at least a couple of hours of role-playing mixed in there. Getting through 6 combat encounters, with 6 players and multiple monsters in each encounter, in about 4 to 4.5 hours would be flat out impossible in 3rd edition.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Dragonblade, post: 4172116, member: 2804"] Multiple attacks at high levels, plus spells and buffs. High level characters often had more than one attack. Assuming a party of four characters composed of the traditional fighter, rogue, cleric, wizard. You have 3 characters that will potentially have multiple attacks by level 10. Each one requiring a separate attack and damage roll. In 4e, only area attacks really require multiple attack rolls but usually only one damage roll. Plus 4e has less fiddly modifiers that have to be calculated in combat. Speaking of modifiers, buff spells are the worst. As casters add buff spells, you have to calculate the different bonus, determine what will and will not stack with what and so on. Then if you get hit with a dispel magic, you potentially have to recalculate everything. Buffs that target ability scores are the worst, since upping or decreasing an ability has a ripple effect across your entire character. If your Dex goes up, it affects your initiative, your AC, your Reflex save and multiple skills. Likewise, monsters often had spells and spell like abilities that simply reference the spell in the PHB. For an ad-hoc or on the fly encounter, the game would come to a screeching halt while the DM went out and looked up spells to see what the monster would and should cast. This is further compounded again by the buff issue because monsters would of course buff and debuff just like PCs. In my 4e playtest games, 4e combat not only spanned more rounds, but were over in less real world time than 3e combats. My group played through the entire Second Son 4e fan adventure in a little over 6 hours. We had 7 multiple round combat encounters plus at least a couple of hours of role-playing mixed in there. Getting through 6 combat encounters, with 6 players and multiple monsters in each encounter, in about 4 to 4.5 hours would be flat out impossible in 3rd edition. [/QUOTE]
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