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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ruin Explorer" data-source="post: 4415324" data-attributes="member: 18">To be honest, if your players have decided it's a problem, they're unlikely to come to believe otherwise, especially as you really seem to agree with them, so this may be a lost cause for you, I'm afraid.With my group, the reaction was more or less the opposite. They always loathed 3.5E's "rules for everything, and if it's not in the rules, you can't do it!" approach, and found 4E's "here's some cinematic special abilities for you and some rules for doing whatever" approach much more to their taste.I don't agree that it's trying to "bridge two worlds" at all. I think it's coming solidly from a "cinematic" style of gaming, but it's giving all characters a baselines set of abilities from their class, instead of forcing them to make everything up themselves. The stuff on stunts is pretty clearly laid out. The harder the stunt is to do, and the less it's possible to repeat it, the better the damage you get from it. I'm not sure how that's confusing. It's clearly not there for "mimicking other classes' abilities", and I'm not sure why you'd be trying to use it that way. It's for swinging from the chandeliers, not for to give Fighters Sneak Attack.If your players are determined to try and ignore the cinematic intentions, and instead merely to use the stunt system to simply allow them to be all classes at once, and you're letting them, well, I can certainly see the problem there, but I'm not sure it's inherent to the game itself.The point of actually having powers is extremely clear - you're guaranteed that they can work. If you want to do extra damage via a stunt or whatever, there's no guarantee the situation is going to work out so that what you want to do is possible, and the DM can simply say "haha no." if just ludicrous or cheap. Unless the DM is intentionally ignoring pg. 42, there's no way you can reliably replicate high-damage, or AE, or control abilities. Sometimes you may achieve something that's similar to one, but there's no guarantee, and idea is pretty much that you use both your powers and stunts as appropriate.</blockquote>

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