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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Herremann the Wise" data-source="post: 4415666" data-attributes="member: 11300">Most people have an emotional investment in the game and unfortunately, the mature and open discussion that you wish for quickly turns into attacks and defence of one system or the other.Whilst the OP has highlighted his groups disconnect between rules focused (3.5) and cinematic focused (C&C) play and the fact for them that 4E seems to be stuck, hybridized in the middle, the discourse is slowly unravelling as the pro or anti voices on one side of the other start introducing different issues (including the one that you were highlighting and finding useful).Ruin Explorer has intimated that the problem is more with Imaro's group than the rules, zen_hydra has picked up on a bit of anti 4e vibe and thrown in a "I don't like 4e because...", that is unrelated to the OP commentary, Mustrum_Ridcully has commented that he really likes 4e and that his group have moved all their 3.x campaigns over to the new ruleset (with a side reference to Torg and implication that they do not have the issues of the OP), MrGrenadine raises some excellent points of why he has several issues with 4E (which you yourself have found cogent), despite this being primarily unrelated to the OP's issue, and then some comments back on track regarding stunts, p42. etc. before Filcher then starts a small but useful defence of the off topic issue that was raised.My point is, threads like this always seem to stray from the specific issue being raised by the OP to more general ones of why 4e, 3.x or whatever version of the game one plays is good, bad or indifferent. It is then up to the posters to be mature about it (in which case, some good ideas can be exchanged) but in reality, most of these threads end up with someone going too far and then the mods come in to clean up the mess.I suppose what I'm saying is, try to stay on topic people otherwise threads like this which raise a good point worthy of discussion end up becoming edition bashing which just lower the tenor of the great place EN World once was.Does the original post cross the line setting up conflictive discourse? Maybe. But that's where the maturity part comes in.And...In terms of being stranded between rules-focused and cinematic focused, I actually concur with the original poster. Our group has come from a rules focused point of view in 3.5 and our several attempts of 4e have been enjoyable but at the same time different from what we are used to and enjoy. Given time and effort, we could most probably shift our group position to being "more in the middle" but dissatisfaction with other issues in 4e most probably means we are not going to get enough 4e game time under our belt to make the perspective shift. At this stage, we are most likely going to stay with the ruleset we know.I think given time, most people would not find this hybridized issue a problem, but at the moment some of us are too stuck at one pole or the other to settle in the middle just yet.Best RegardsHerremann the Wise</blockquote>

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