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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celtavian" data-source="post: 4419095" data-attributes="member: 5834">reThanks for all the suggestions on how to deal with the minis. I'll see which one is convenient for us to use.I wasn't trying to start an edition war. I've read a ton about how 4E is easier to run. Before I played it, I could not speak confidently on the matter. After playing 4E I can speak confidently that it is not easier to run, though it is much easier to prep for. Combats do not take less time and I know this because I actually decided to time our fights rather than just go by the nebulous "feeling".After timing our fights they take the same amount of time for the same amount of mobs, and often take far longer when a controller or leader is involved on the side of an enemy force. At low level everyone can do much more than they used to be able to do at low level.I'm sure it will even at higher level, but right now these combats are taking a a while and have a huge amount of round to round bookkeeping. And the only people I feel won't admit this are people so interested in defending 4E that they don't want to talk honestly about the game.4E is just as complicated as any previous edition. The bookkeeping is round to round. This is especially true at low level.It may not be so much at higher level when players and monsters get a ton of buffs. But right now I'm finding it just as complicated as previous editions. I make a ton of notations on monsters for player effects and on players for monster effects. I have to remember if a monster has used its recharge power, its encounter power and just a ton of small bookkeeping details that are important to the game.Doesn't mean it's a bad game. I'm just not as enamored of it as I was. And I feel the billing of easier to run was false. When you have five or six players shooting off their encounter powers every fight and mixing in dailies and magic item powers, that is alot to keep track of. And the monsters doing the same just increases the bookkeeping load. That's honesty about 4E. Alot of round to round bookkeeping that slows the game down.Even tossing chits out there to cover every condition lengthens the time it takes to run combat.Though I will admit the minis make visualization of the combat easier. That is helpful.</blockquote>

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