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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Gothmog" data-source="post: 4419615" data-attributes="member: 317">Hmm, ok- I looked back through the thread and I'm not seeing what you're talking about here.  I can't answer for other posters, but the two combats I listed that were brutal were party level +1 and party level -1, respectively.  I have 6 PCs in my game, and using the guidelines in the DMG, the encounter with a grell (an elite), two trog maulers, one trog impaler, and one trog curse chanter was a 1750 XP encounter- a level 7 encounter for 6th level PCs. At the end of the battle, 3 of the 6 characters were dead, and two more were down. That encounter was only one level higher than partly level, and both sides were rolling pretty average. The encounter at level -1 occurred when the party was 4th level (a 900 XP encounter= a level 3 encounter).  Even encounters at party level or one level lower have KO'd or killed characters. Another one (when they were 4th level) involved 2 dark creepers, 3 zombie rotters, and a corruption corpse.  That one ended with 1 PC dead, 4 down, and one conscious.I never said I put solo monsters in a group- just that solo monsters can lay a severe beatdown on PCs.  Nor did I ever amp the encounter level up to twice the party level, or give 2 PCs standard encounters.  So make whatever assertions you like, but experience has shown me 4e combat is MUCH harder and more brutal than 3e combat, AND it works well right out of the book, unlike 3e.But I will agree 3e needed fixing. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /></blockquote>

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