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4e Adventure Design Question
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<blockquote data-quote="Badwe" data-source="post: 4756821" data-attributes="member: 61762"><p>Capnzapp: I wanted to address/add to some of your points.</p><p></p><p>Regarding 3e modules. First, it has been stated on these boards and elsewhere that the “maps too small” issue is really a matter of integration. What was once three rooms for three encounters should be a single encounter involving use of the nearby rooms and hallways. There are several examples of this in the first published adventure: Keep on the shadowfell. So, those 2 orcs may not be dangerous, but perhaps they alert the 3 nearby rooms full of 5 other orcs, giving players time to prepare and set up defensive positions. </p><p></p><p>Second, as far as the playground effect, it reaches a bit deeper than just encounter design. As part of trying to keep all classes interesting and avoiding the “fighting man” simplicity, many classes have powers keyed to movement and tactics (esp. the warlord and controllers). Having simplistic terrain such as one big 30x30 room limits those classes’ opportunities to shine.</p><p></p><p>Third, as far as status effects: look at the design of a solo. They have a +5 (!) to attempting roll 10 or higher, that brings them from 55% to 80% chance of success. Yes, you get a bigger effect when you shut them down for even 1 turn, but you also get a smaller effect when you get to target areas. Also in turn, when not stunned/dazed/whatever, the solo often has: a potent opportunity attack, some form of special immediate reaction, multi-attacks, effects usable with a minor action, and TWO action points. I don’t doubt that status effects are still a strong strategy vs. solos, but I don’t think it’s that bad.</p><p></p><p>As new creatures coming out like the adamantine dragon show: while things like what I’ve listed are there to help solos be more interesting, WotC has realized they were too conservative with them initially and are making them more aggressive. This is the pendulum coming back to center after the far swing away from 3 round glass cannon barrages.</p><p></p><p>As far as the dungeon delve, if you follow the advice for expanding the delve I don’t see why it can’t serve the OP’s needs. Of course they have a weak story, any story you don’t write yourself is unlikely to seem interesting.</p><p></p><p>You mentioned the danger of a grind of just taking one normal monster. See my earlier post. For a regular monster you’re looking at an imbalance of possibly 7 AC, for an elite a somewhat more manageable (but back-breaking) 5. Often a better choice is an elite at level n+3 or n+4 with only a few minor minions or cannon fodder, possibly just traps/hazards. This way the focus is on the “boss” but the challenge is still there. This was the model for the kalarel fight in KotS.</p><p></p><p>Last point, I promise. If you are desperate for monsters within a certain level and role, I encourage you to try asmor’s monster encounter template tool. <a href="http://asmor.com/scripts/4eEncounterGen/planner.php" target="_blank">4e Encounter Planner - Asmor.com</a> simply select the sources you have and it will help you adjust. Remember: just because you have a level 8 encounter doesn’t mean your soldiers must be level 8.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Badwe, post: 4756821, member: 61762"] Capnzapp: I wanted to address/add to some of your points. Regarding 3e modules. First, it has been stated on these boards and elsewhere that the “maps too small” issue is really a matter of integration. What was once three rooms for three encounters should be a single encounter involving use of the nearby rooms and hallways. There are several examples of this in the first published adventure: Keep on the shadowfell. So, those 2 orcs may not be dangerous, but perhaps they alert the 3 nearby rooms full of 5 other orcs, giving players time to prepare and set up defensive positions. Second, as far as the playground effect, it reaches a bit deeper than just encounter design. As part of trying to keep all classes interesting and avoiding the “fighting man” simplicity, many classes have powers keyed to movement and tactics (esp. the warlord and controllers). Having simplistic terrain such as one big 30x30 room limits those classes’ opportunities to shine. Third, as far as status effects: look at the design of a solo. They have a +5 (!) to attempting roll 10 or higher, that brings them from 55% to 80% chance of success. Yes, you get a bigger effect when you shut them down for even 1 turn, but you also get a smaller effect when you get to target areas. Also in turn, when not stunned/dazed/whatever, the solo often has: a potent opportunity attack, some form of special immediate reaction, multi-attacks, effects usable with a minor action, and TWO action points. I don’t doubt that status effects are still a strong strategy vs. solos, but I don’t think it’s that bad. As new creatures coming out like the adamantine dragon show: while things like what I’ve listed are there to help solos be more interesting, WotC has realized they were too conservative with them initially and are making them more aggressive. This is the pendulum coming back to center after the far swing away from 3 round glass cannon barrages. As far as the dungeon delve, if you follow the advice for expanding the delve I don’t see why it can’t serve the OP’s needs. Of course they have a weak story, any story you don’t write yourself is unlikely to seem interesting. You mentioned the danger of a grind of just taking one normal monster. See my earlier post. For a regular monster you’re looking at an imbalance of possibly 7 AC, for an elite a somewhat more manageable (but back-breaking) 5. Often a better choice is an elite at level n+3 or n+4 with only a few minor minions or cannon fodder, possibly just traps/hazards. This way the focus is on the “boss” but the challenge is still there. This was the model for the kalarel fight in KotS. Last point, I promise. If you are desperate for monsters within a certain level and role, I encourage you to try asmor’s monster encounter template tool. [url=http://asmor.com/scripts/4eEncounterGen/planner.php]4e Encounter Planner - Asmor.com[/url] simply select the sources you have and it will help you adjust. Remember: just because you have a level 8 encounter doesn’t mean your soldiers must be level 8. [/QUOTE]
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