D&D 4E 4E and ARM5

[TikkchikFenTikktikk]

Has anyone here tried splicing Ars Magica's (the 5th, latest edition's) magic spell and item creation rules into 4E as a replacement or addition to the ritual system?


I ask, because I was feeling a little mopey about the loss of rituals in Essentials, and pondering what felt like lack of support for them pre-Essentials.

Then I noticed that my FLGS inexplicably had Ars Magica 5th Edition books in stock. I went to Atlas Games's web site and saw they have quietly been putting out books at a steady stream since the edition launched back in late 2004. They have just reprinted some early books too.

I remembered playing ARM5 more than 3.x for a year or so. The overall system just wasn't my thing, but the magic creation rules were amazing. Too fiddly and knob twisting for me personally, but for the gamer who really wants to personalize and craft it could be the best thing ever.

Thoughts?

 

[Jhaelen]

Has anyone here tried splicing Ars Magica's (the 5th, latest edition's) magic spell and item creation rules into 4E as a replacement or addition to the ritual system?

First I'd like to say that I absolutely love Ars Magica and the 5th edition is definitely the best edition so far. I've bought every supplement despite no longer playing it for several years.

The supplements are always well researched and well written and can easily be mined for story ideas and medieval flavour in general.

However, I don't feel the setting or mechanics mesh well with 4e D&D. Ars Magica has its strengths eaxctly in the areas that D&D 4e tends to handwave: downtime systems, spell research, item crafting, etc.

I once tried to mesh the Ars Magica rules with the oWoD Mage rules which was difficult but worked up to a certain degree. But integrating them into 4e? I really wouldn't know where to start. The systems are based on entirely different paradigms.

Here's some random thoughts:

Ars Magica uses a 'toolkit' approach: E.g. all spells include the information how the spell design guidelines have been applied to determine their level and effects.

The two most important resources in Ars Magica are time and Vis. The latter has a rough equivalent in 4e (residuum) but the former is typically irrelevant. Residuum would probably have to become 'typed' to be closer to the Ars Magica equivalent. Residuum as is represents Vim Vis.

Everything in Ars Magica is skill based. Improving skills requires training or study which takes time and in the case of magical skills something to study, e.g. Vis or books.
To create items you also need a lab. Building and equipping labs costs time and money (and pretty much requires a fixed base which is preferably located in a relatively high Magic Aura).

Your skills determine how long it will take you to create an item and imbue effects and also what kind of effects you can imbue (and how often you'll be able to use them).

Now granted, in D&D rituals are also (often) based on skills.

One thing that might translate well into 4e are the bonuses granted by using appropriate materials and shapes.

Finally, in Ars Magica the Magi are typically reluctant to go adventuring, they'd much rather spend all their time in their Covenant. In D&D that's quite different.


Whew! So how did you plan to align these approaches with 4e?

 

[Mr. Teapot]

I don't think that wholesale importing Ars Magica's system would work without substantial change. But creating an AM style noun + verb magic system might be doable to provide guidelines for ritual creation. 3.5 had something a little similar in the incantations (?) From Unearthed Arcana (and other games like Godlike and Nobilis had systems that could be mined as well).