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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Mercurius" data-source="post: 4534080" data-attributes="member: 59082">Damn, evidently my "token" ran out (whatever that is) and I lost my multi-quote response. Oh well, I'm not one to try to re-create the wheel...Anyways, I really like Irda Ranger's response so I'll respond to that:Well said, and I agree to all the above.Well, I am just starting my first 4E campaign, so we'll see how I feel after a few sessions, but my sense is that 4E "corrected" a lot of what I didn't like about 3E--which I liked better than 2E and 1E--and with some of its own tricks added to mix.I actually agree with this, for the most part. This brings out another spectrum of game preference: simple to complex. The complexity-junkies loved 3E, because it enabled all sorts of options, while still resting on a nice core mechanic (2E was equally complex, if not more so, but without the core mechanic that allowed for greater complexity without getting lost in a ton of "Rules & Options"). The "new twists and complexities" aren't inherently wrong, imo, but indicate of a certain style of play. So every gamer, in my opinion, exists along a spectrum of complexity preference, from OD&D to BECMI to 1E to 2E to 3E. Where does 4E lie? I think between BECMI and 1E (or maybe between 1E and 2E) which is why like it. But, as I said, I would also be open to a hybrid of OD&D's simplicity and improvisational style and 4E's core mechanic and fun gimmicks (I like the Powers system, as well as Defenses, for example, but am not as much into all the complexities of combat and anything that requires miniatures; I like miniatures, I just don't want to NEED them).As for your last sentence, you're probably right. Of course you could also say the contrary: start with 4E and strip out any unwanted parts and, voila, there it is. I'm going to start with 4E and see how I (we) like it, play the learn-as-we-go game, and see if anything gets in the way. We'll play what we want to play; it might come down to me making my own version of "Basic 4E." We'll see.</blockquote>

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