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<blockquote data-quote="Majoru Oakheart" data-source="post: 5306451" data-attributes="member: 5143"><p>I'll explain where it came from. In my old combination 1e/2e game, rules changed every couple of seconds based on DM whim. We were playing 6 or 7 D&D games at the same time with 6 or 7 DMs. We'd vote each week to see what game we'd play. Often playing 2 or 3 different games each session.</p><p></p><p>What that experience told me is that "common sense" isn't nearly as common as we'd like to think. One DM thought that if you could grab someone then they'd be completely unable to attack until they could get out. He felt the best rule to simulate this was the person with the highest strength won. This meant that anyone with an 18 strength pretty much could say "I grab him" and disable any enemy. It was better than attacking enemies by far. Since he would let someone instantly slay anyone being held. After all, you could just cut their necks. Seemed to be common sense to him.</p><p></p><p>That's just one example, but each game was filled with interesting rules like that as each DM's interpretation of what was realistic ran wild creating house rules. It was nearly impossible to keep track of them all since they were all just verbal rules that the DM expected everyone to remember...after all, they were all common sense anyways. It lets to many occasions where you'd go to grab someone expecting to succeed without a roll and you'd realize after you said it, that this was the DM that felt grabbing people was about positioning and required people make Dex checks or fall flat on their faces while you were playing your 18 Str, 6 Dex fighter. The DM never let you take it back, of course. After all, you can't say you are going to do something and then take it back simply because you are going to fail. Your character didn't know that.</p><p></p><p>After the 20th or 30th character you lose simply because of a difference in what you considered common sense or realistic and what your DM thought, you get frustrated and you begin to say "Hey, wouldn't it be cool if I knew what worked and what didn't in advance and I could choose what I was going to do with a good chance that I succeed?"</p><p></p><p>Especially considering how many arguments broke out at our tables regarding what was realistic. You know how many times I had to listen to "There's no way you could accomplish that, it's completely unrealistic!"/"I don't know what you are talking about. I can do that in real life easily. Here, I'll get up and show you how I'd do that" arguments? Too many to count. "I can jump 20 feet no problem", "If I was strong enough I could pick up a house, it doesn't matter how big it is, just how strong I am", "Fire doesn't move at that speed, there should be more than enough time to get out of the house before we are on fire", "I should be able to cast a spell even if I'm tied up, my HANDS are free", "It's magical fire, of course it can burn underwater!", "An entire cavern falling on someone's head should kill them instantly, I don't care HOW many hitpoints they have", and so on and so forth.</p><p></p><p>And 3e came out and promised that would change. Instead of each DM making up their own rules, there would be a standard set of rules that all DMs would use. And, especially in our group, we were really happy to finally have a reference point and rules that wouldn't change. Plus, it gave us reason to say no to people. If there was a feat that said you could do something...then obviously you can't do it without the feat. It wouldn't be fair to the people who spent a feat on it.</p><p></p><p>It also started encouraging game balance. In our old games, we considered game balance...but it was a losing battle. For every kit you banned because it was way too powerful, there were 10 more that were just as bad. But even the worst balanced options in 3e were WAY more balanced than most of the stuff in 2e. The designers posted saying that they'd never balance a role playing disadvantage with a combat advantage. They encouraged the concept of absolute game balance. If a fighter can do 20 damage with a sword, the wizard shouldn't be doing instant death just because he cast a spell. I mean, it makes sense "realistically" that a wizard could just turn someone to stone. But was that fair to the player of the fighter simply because he likes the visual of his character using a sword?</p><p></p><p>And as soon as you start to go down that road, it begins to make more sense to get rid of "realism" to replace it with balance. You really can't have both. Realism encourages imbalance by its very nature.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Majoru Oakheart, post: 5306451, member: 5143"] I'll explain where it came from. In my old combination 1e/2e game, rules changed every couple of seconds based on DM whim. We were playing 6 or 7 D&D games at the same time with 6 or 7 DMs. We'd vote each week to see what game we'd play. Often playing 2 or 3 different games each session. What that experience told me is that "common sense" isn't nearly as common as we'd like to think. One DM thought that if you could grab someone then they'd be completely unable to attack until they could get out. He felt the best rule to simulate this was the person with the highest strength won. This meant that anyone with an 18 strength pretty much could say "I grab him" and disable any enemy. It was better than attacking enemies by far. Since he would let someone instantly slay anyone being held. After all, you could just cut their necks. Seemed to be common sense to him. That's just one example, but each game was filled with interesting rules like that as each DM's interpretation of what was realistic ran wild creating house rules. It was nearly impossible to keep track of them all since they were all just verbal rules that the DM expected everyone to remember...after all, they were all common sense anyways. It lets to many occasions where you'd go to grab someone expecting to succeed without a roll and you'd realize after you said it, that this was the DM that felt grabbing people was about positioning and required people make Dex checks or fall flat on their faces while you were playing your 18 Str, 6 Dex fighter. The DM never let you take it back, of course. After all, you can't say you are going to do something and then take it back simply because you are going to fail. Your character didn't know that. After the 20th or 30th character you lose simply because of a difference in what you considered common sense or realistic and what your DM thought, you get frustrated and you begin to say "Hey, wouldn't it be cool if I knew what worked and what didn't in advance and I could choose what I was going to do with a good chance that I succeed?" Especially considering how many arguments broke out at our tables regarding what was realistic. You know how many times I had to listen to "There's no way you could accomplish that, it's completely unrealistic!"/"I don't know what you are talking about. I can do that in real life easily. Here, I'll get up and show you how I'd do that" arguments? Too many to count. "I can jump 20 feet no problem", "If I was strong enough I could pick up a house, it doesn't matter how big it is, just how strong I am", "Fire doesn't move at that speed, there should be more than enough time to get out of the house before we are on fire", "I should be able to cast a spell even if I'm tied up, my HANDS are free", "It's magical fire, of course it can burn underwater!", "An entire cavern falling on someone's head should kill them instantly, I don't care HOW many hitpoints they have", and so on and so forth. And 3e came out and promised that would change. Instead of each DM making up their own rules, there would be a standard set of rules that all DMs would use. And, especially in our group, we were really happy to finally have a reference point and rules that wouldn't change. Plus, it gave us reason to say no to people. If there was a feat that said you could do something...then obviously you can't do it without the feat. It wouldn't be fair to the people who spent a feat on it. It also started encouraging game balance. In our old games, we considered game balance...but it was a losing battle. For every kit you banned because it was way too powerful, there were 10 more that were just as bad. But even the worst balanced options in 3e were WAY more balanced than most of the stuff in 2e. The designers posted saying that they'd never balance a role playing disadvantage with a combat advantage. They encouraged the concept of absolute game balance. If a fighter can do 20 damage with a sword, the wizard shouldn't be doing instant death just because he cast a spell. I mean, it makes sense "realistically" that a wizard could just turn someone to stone. But was that fair to the player of the fighter simply because he likes the visual of his character using a sword? And as soon as you start to go down that road, it begins to make more sense to get rid of "realism" to replace it with balance. You really can't have both. Realism encourages imbalance by its very nature. [/QUOTE]
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