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<blockquote data-quote="lutecius" data-source="post: 5309416" data-attributes="member: 60332"><p>uh, ok?</p><p></p><p>I don't recall claiming that dnd was particularly simulationist.</p><p>I do think that, no matter how many gamist elements and fluff inconsistencies you find in the previous editions, those added in 4e still make it <em>less</em> simulationist (and just because you're willing to accept a certain level of quirkiness doesn't mean you want more of it) but that wasn't really my point.</p><p></p><p>I was specifically challenging your assertion that "<em>when most people say 'simulationism' they really mean 'ability to game more elements of the world</em>", which would equate simulationism with "rules heavy". Again, most discussions about simulation in 4e involve existing rules (hence my examples), not the lack of rules.</p><p></p><p>Your views on "legendary" grabbing powers, martial dailies, the grid, minions or healing surges were um, enlightening but really, these mechanics have been debated to death since 4e's release… precisely because some people don't find them believable.</p><p>whether you agree with them or not, these are common simulationist issues. 4e not "attempting to make everything into game elements" isn't.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="lutecius, post: 5309416, member: 60332"] uh, ok? I don't recall claiming that dnd was particularly simulationist. I do think that, no matter how many gamist elements and fluff inconsistencies you find in the previous editions, those added in 4e still make it [I]less[/I] simulationist (and just because you're willing to accept a certain level of quirkiness doesn't mean you want more of it) but that wasn't really my point. I was specifically challenging your assertion that "[I]when most people say 'simulationism' they really mean 'ability to game more elements of the world[/I]", which would equate simulationism with "rules heavy". Again, most discussions about simulation in 4e involve existing rules (hence my examples), not the lack of rules. Your views on "legendary" grabbing powers, martial dailies, the grid, minions or healing surges were um, enlightening but really, these mechanics have been debated to death since 4e's release… precisely because some people don't find them believable. whether you agree with them or not, these are common simulationist issues. 4e not "attempting to make everything into game elements" isn't. [/QUOTE]
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