Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
4e and reality
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 5313269" data-attributes="member: 82106"><p>Player control over PC build is a totally different issue from narrative coherency. Not only that but if you put the players at least partly in charge of narrative then you've just shifted the responsibility for that coherency on them. The grabby fighter grabbing the swarm is still a narrative problem. Except now the people trying to solve it aren't the arbiters of the rules, so the solution is not even in their sphere. This is why ultimately the DM is the 'editor' of reality. Someone needs it and you can't always count on the players to be able to handle that role collectively. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>No system is perfect all of the time. Basically what you're saying is something like "Gosh, grabbing just isn't realistic in 4e, if that bothers you then ditch the whole thing and go play 7th Sea". Yeah, right... I will say it ONE MORE TIME though obviously it hasn't sunk in the last 3 times, the issues between fluff and rules are VERY SMALL in 4e. If we were talking about a gigantic gulf between the needs and desires of the players and the rules then "switch to a different system" makes sense. When we're talking about 3-4 obscure corner cases that each come up once or twice in a whole 2-3 year long campaign? Sorry, the rules actually CAN bend that much to the needs of the players. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Again, you make FAR too much of this. I'm entirely mystified by how one could conclude that rigid adherence to the mechanics of the game is a principle that comes out of that blog post. Actually it misses the point because it is far too general. Establishing player resources is fine and all, but what we're talking about here are minor details of when and how those resources can be deployed in a very specific situation that the rules are silent on.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="AbdulAlhazred, post: 5313269, member: 82106"] Player control over PC build is a totally different issue from narrative coherency. Not only that but if you put the players at least partly in charge of narrative then you've just shifted the responsibility for that coherency on them. The grabby fighter grabbing the swarm is still a narrative problem. Except now the people trying to solve it aren't the arbiters of the rules, so the solution is not even in their sphere. This is why ultimately the DM is the 'editor' of reality. Someone needs it and you can't always count on the players to be able to handle that role collectively. No system is perfect all of the time. Basically what you're saying is something like "Gosh, grabbing just isn't realistic in 4e, if that bothers you then ditch the whole thing and go play 7th Sea". Yeah, right... I will say it ONE MORE TIME though obviously it hasn't sunk in the last 3 times, the issues between fluff and rules are VERY SMALL in 4e. If we were talking about a gigantic gulf between the needs and desires of the players and the rules then "switch to a different system" makes sense. When we're talking about 3-4 obscure corner cases that each come up once or twice in a whole 2-3 year long campaign? Sorry, the rules actually CAN bend that much to the needs of the players. Again, you make FAR too much of this. I'm entirely mystified by how one could conclude that rigid adherence to the mechanics of the game is a principle that comes out of that blog post. Actually it misses the point because it is far too general. Establishing player resources is fine and all, but what we're talking about here are minor details of when and how those resources can be deployed in a very specific situation that the rules are silent on. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
4e and reality
Top