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<blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 5317918" data-attributes="member: 82106">Compendium shows the term swarm is defined in MM2 (probably MM1 as well but it was probably updated). The definition does indeed state that &quot;A swarm cannot be pulled, pushed, or slid by melee or ranged attacks.&quot; Now, that doesn't categorically exclude pushing a swarm and in fact say Thunderwave can legally do so, so it is not correct to state that they CANNOT be pushed, just not with a single target power.[MENTION=8900]Tony[/MENTION]. I think your characterization of DMs using their license to choose some degree of narrative consistency over rules consistency in some case as &quot;to ignore the rules arbitrarily to punish players who don't sufficiently entertain you&quot; and claiming people who do so are doing it to derive some sort of perverse pleasure is, well I would say offensive but honestly all of this debate is just for amusement anyway so that would be overstating it a whole bunch, but it is hyperbole. And trust me, after DMing for as long as I have I've seen every possible strategy players can use to game a DM.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="AbdulAlhazred, post: 5317918, member: 82106"] Compendium shows the term swarm is defined in MM2 (probably MM1 as well but it was probably updated). The definition does indeed state that "A swarm cannot be pulled, pushed, or slid by melee or ranged attacks." Now, that doesn't categorically exclude pushing a swarm and in fact say Thunderwave can legally do so, so it is not correct to state that they CANNOT be pushed, just not with a single target power. [MENTION=8900]Tony[/MENTION]. I think your characterization of DMs using their license to choose some degree of narrative consistency over rules consistency in some case as "to ignore the rules arbitrarily to punish players who don't sufficiently entertain you" and claiming people who do so are doing it to derive some sort of perverse pleasure is, well I would say offensive but honestly all of this debate is just for amusement anyway so that would be overstating it a whole bunch, but it is hyperbole. And trust me, after DMing for as long as I have I've seen every possible strategy players can use to game a DM. [/QUOTE]

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