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<blockquote data-quote="Aegeri" data-source="post: 5321630" data-attributes="member: 78116">Neither answer says that. Both answers state that by RAW, you do not and then the DM can decide otherwise. My question was &quot;What does the RAW actually say&quot;. The RAW actually says exactly what I thought it did. That powers like grappling strike do not follow the rules for grab - a separate attack that has nothing to do with it.The first answer was not clear, so I clarified and asked a specific question. When I asked a firmly specific question, the answer was what I expected it to be. The second answer was far more clear because I left no wiggle room for personal interpretation. It was either &quot;Yes it did&quot; or &quot;No it doesn't&quot;. When that was removed I got a clear answer as to what the actual RAW was. Now RAI is an entirely different situation.By RAW, you can grab a swarm with a power that isn't the standard grab action. Meaning a lot of controller, brawler and similar powers function. Given some classes, like the brawler fighter rely heavily on grabbing to work it makes perfect sense they ignore the restrictions on an attack, they aren't using and instead on what their powers actually say they do. Personally, that is what backs up my RAI interpretation as well. Because I don't believe 4E is made in such a way that entire builds are broken by poor design, I firmly believe using their powers a grappling fighter can grab anything he feels like. As the power doesn't have any restriction, that is backed up by RAW and RAI to me easily.As I said, you're welcome to change how powers work based entirely on your personal preferences. Unless I see a good reason swarms shouldn't be grabbed or a brawler fighters basic features fail to work, then I don't think there is any mechanical or game benefit to ruling they can't do those things.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Aegeri, post: 5321630, member: 78116"] Neither answer says that. Both answers state that by RAW, you do not and then the DM can decide otherwise. My question was "What does the RAW actually say". The RAW actually says exactly what I thought it did. That powers like grappling strike [i]do not[/i] follow the rules for grab - a separate attack that has nothing to do with it. The first answer was not clear, so I clarified and asked a specific question. When I asked a firmly specific question, the answer was what I expected it to be. The second answer was far more clear because I left no wiggle room for personal interpretation. It was either "Yes it did" or "No it doesn't". When that was removed I got a clear answer as to what the actual [i]RAW[/i] was. Now RAI is an entirely different situation. By RAW, you can grab a swarm with a power that isn't the standard grab action. Meaning a lot of controller, brawler and similar powers function. Given some classes, like the brawler fighter rely heavily on grabbing to work it makes perfect sense they ignore the restrictions on an attack, [b]they aren't using[/b] and instead on what [i]their powers actually say they do[/i]. Personally, that is what backs up my RAI interpretation as well. Because I don't believe 4E is made in such a way that entire builds are broken by poor design, I firmly believe [i]using their powers[/i] a grappling fighter can grab anything he feels like. As the power doesn't have any restriction, that is backed up by RAW [b]and[/b] RAI to me easily. As I said, you're welcome to change how powers work based entirely on your personal preferences. Unless I see a good reason swarms shouldn't be grabbed or a brawler fighters basic features fail to work, then I don't think there is any mechanical or game benefit to ruling they can't do those things. [/QUOTE]

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