NOW LIVE! Today's the day you meet your new best friend. You don’t have to leave Wolfy behind... In 'Pets & Sidekicks' your companions level up with you!

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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Majoru Oakheart" data-source="post: 5322001" data-attributes="member: 5143">Unfortunately, all of that discussion fails to consider the description of Grab in the Rules Compendium which I posted earlier.It is now listed as an at-will power complete with target line, attack line, and hit line.  On it's hit line it says "You grab the target".Also, Grabbed is listed as a condition that says "While a target is grabbed it is immobilized".So, if the logic above is to be believed, every time you use the Grab At-Will power that everyone gets, when you hit with the power, it doesn't apply the Grabbed condition(since it doesn't say that), you instead Grab the target.  In order to grab a target(again, according to the above logic), you use the Grab power.  So, you roll another attack roll...and if you hit, then you grab the target....which requires another attack roll...and so on.The Rules Compendium is confirmed to be the most up to date version of the rules.  WOTC_Josh from the rules update team said this on the WOTC message boards:Which leads me to believe that the version of Grab written in the PHB was a little too vague and was being interpreted poorly.  It's likely that the rules are running into a English problem where some designer decided to use an English word and meaning in a rules entry.  In the same way that some powers say "you immobilize the target" apply the immobilized condition and "you stun the target" applies the stunned condition, "you grab the target" applies the grabbed condition.And given that Grab is now written up as a full power, it should have no interaction with any other rule.  In the same way that you wouldn't refer to the description of Fireball to see how your Flaming Sphere worked.Even the preamble for the Grab power in the Rules Compendium basically says(roughly) "This is just one way of grabbing people, and that some class powers will be better at it than this power, but this one has the advantage of being able to be used by anyone."</blockquote>

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