NOW LIVE! Today's the day you meet your new best friend. You don’t have to leave Wolfy behind... In 'Pets & Sidekicks' your companions level up with you!

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Message: <blockquote data-quote="P1NBACK" data-source="post: 5326593" data-attributes="member: 83768">The mechanics don't override the fiction. As LostSoul said, there's an "I try to..." that is implied in this instance. It's the stated fictional intent, just like when I say, "Well, I'm going to intimidate him..." You don't actually intimidate him until we determine the effect. But, you need to say your intent in order for us to resolve the fiction. It's all part of the resolution process in RPGs. This is basics. I don't understand how you can come to the conclusion that this is disassociated from the fiction. The "oh no you don't" is strictly fictional. You're missing a lot in your example though. In Dogs, it'd look like this (I've used 3rd person and highlighted the text to show you the fiction vs. the ooc - notice there is always fiction combined with the dice): DM: Jim shoots you in the face! (pushes forward two dice)Player: Oh no you don't! Sam ducks! (pushes forward two dice to match)Player: And, after you miss, Sam draws his gun and fires back! (pushes forward two dice)DM: Crap! I can't match those. Well, Jim takes the blow. (pushes forward 4 dice) You shoot him right in the chest. Blood starts pumping out in time to his heartbeat. It spills all over his white shirt. But, he's not dead yet...It's not disassociated because the dice have a direct impact on the fiction and actions of my character. For one, Dogs uses fortune-in-the-middle for its dice resolution. Meaning, you roll dice first, then resolve the fiction. 4E uses fortune-at-the-end, which means we describe what we do, then roll dice to determine the outcome. It's completely irrelevant to this conversation and might be confusing you. Where you roll the dice doesn't really matter or mean that the "mechanics have trumped the fiction". That only happens when the mechanics mean nothing to the fiction. In this instance, the mechanics do mean something to the fiction (they always do in Dogs). Not in your game. In my game, I'd never use 100 or more minions in one encounter. I'd use a gargantuan swarm. Let's just assume they were a swarm (because I can make them one in my game). Now, let's assume Aragorn was a brawler fighter. Should he be allowed to grab that swarm? Nah. Abstraction has nothing to do with it. I'm fine with "hit points". 4E hasn't made attacks do more damage to replicate "multiple" attacks. Look at the Ranger class for example. Twin Strike is two distinct attacks. Or, how about area attacks from Wizards? You make an attack roll for each target. Again, I don't see how this is relevant.</blockquote>

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