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<blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 5328519" data-attributes="member: 82106">Well, in the 4e example I'd have to tell the DM what power I'm using and what weapon(s) or implement(s). The analogous situation in DiTV is I have to tell you if I used guns, fists, or words. In that sense you can simply see those as having mechanical existence to that extent. At that point both systems can be run in an equally fluffless fashion like dice games. Like I said before though, DiTV will retain practically no trace of the narrative, whereas 4e will still retain a skeleton that concretely explains the action in game terms as it relates to the game world. One is more abstract, but no more or less 'dissociated' than the other. I think this whole dissociated meme came about from a misunderstanding people had about the DETACHABILITY of fluff from mechanics in 4e. That wasn't about playing a narrativeless wargame style tactical game. It was about the ability to choose alternate fluff without FORCING a change to the fluff or the mechanics to keep them in sync with each other. Somehow people have conflated various characteristics of 4e, relatively concrete mechanics and modular fluff into &quot;fluff is irrelevant and should be ignored&quot;, which I think was never ever the intent.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="AbdulAlhazred, post: 5328519, member: 82106"] Well, in the 4e example I'd have to tell the DM what power I'm using and what weapon(s) or implement(s). The analogous situation in DiTV is I have to tell you if I used guns, fists, or words. In that sense you can simply see those as having mechanical existence to that extent. At that point both systems can be run in an equally fluffless fashion like dice games. Like I said before though, DiTV will retain practically no trace of the narrative, whereas 4e will still retain a skeleton that concretely explains the action in game terms as it relates to the game world. One is more abstract, but no more or less 'dissociated' than the other. I think this whole dissociated meme came about from a misunderstanding people had about the DETACHABILITY of fluff from mechanics in 4e. That wasn't about playing a narrativeless wargame style tactical game. It was about the ability to choose alternate fluff without FORCING a change to the fluff or the mechanics to keep them in sync with each other. Somehow people have conflated various characteristics of 4e, relatively concrete mechanics and modular fluff into "fluff is irrelevant and should be ignored", which I think was never ever the intent. [/QUOTE]

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