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Message: <blockquote data-quote="P1NBACK" data-source="post: 5331571" data-attributes="member: 83768">Yeah. There were more than just Hussar arguing against description. But, I think we've got several different arguments going on here. Do we need to describe powers fictionally? Should they make sense in the fiction? Are some of 4E's mechanics disassociated? Is Monopoly an RPG? Should a DM make rules in particular cases that break the general rules? e.g. Should a swarm be immune to grab in some cases? And, all of those are getting mixed up. So, like, some of my posts address one, and not the other. And, in some cases, contradict each other. Like, for example, my argument for fiction isn't to address disassociated mechanics. You can't really address that. They either are or they aren't. You can houserule them to not be disassociated, but then you're houseruling every instance of them, like Jason Alexander said. That's what I think your comment here is doing. It's not your fault, this whole thread is a huge pandora's box and there's a million different opinions on it. I'm not saying one way is the "right true one way". Not at all. Some people prefer 4E's disassociated mechanics (like Aegeri, I think does). This is why they're against descriptions because they fly in the face of the disassociated mechanics. They'd rather handwave the fiction and stick to the rules to a letter (even if that means sometimes they don't make sense fictionally, or we have to justify it in weird ways). I don't care if they do this, but that's not the "one true way" either. And, that's my stance on this. As for your example of old D&D, we've always said, "I swing my sword" before we rolled any dice. If you said, "I rolled a 17..." and I was the DM... I'd be like.... "Woah! Hold up there pardner! What are you DOING?" If you're just rolling dice at our table, that's a big no-no. Similarly, don't come up to me and say, "I'm rolling a skill check. Got a 17." Huh? No. "What are you DOING?" It's the same thing as someone pushing forward two dice in Dogs and not saying what they are doing. "Wait a sec! What are you DOING?" That's what I do in 4E too. So, in sum, I think of a lot of arguments are being made in this thread. It's too broad and it's becoming confusing. Maybe we should kill this thread and address some specific questions? I don't know. But, it's hard to respond to some of these questions because they kind of cross threads that don't really need to be crossed.</blockquote>

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