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<blockquote data-quote="CovertOps" data-source="post: 5331775" data-attributes="member: 65152">So based on these quotes you finally agree with my position.&nbsp; If 4e doesn't &quot;require&quot; said fiction then &quot;I Twin Strike the kobold&quot; is just as good as &quot;I swing both my swords at the kobold&quot; because there is no abstraction.&nbsp; I liken this to martial artists.&nbsp; My apologies if my terms aren't accurate since I'm not one.&nbsp; I would assume that most maneuvers in Karate, Judo, etc. have names of some sort or another.&nbsp; For example &quot;Roundhouse kick&quot; or &quot;Leg sweep&quot;.&nbsp; I would imagine that in the game world (fiction) each of the abilities your character knows was given a name.&nbsp; It may or may not be the same text that is the &quot;name&quot; of your characters &quot;power&quot;.&nbsp; If we assume that &quot;Tide of Iron&quot; is a specific NAMED ability that your character learned, then when the player says &quot;I Tide of Iron the Kobold&quot; it IS the fiction.&nbsp; This is just the same as the Wizard saying &quot;I cast Fireball on the Kobold&quot;.&nbsp; Fireball being the name of the spell he learned in Wizard school.I get what you are saying about Dogs and I now see (although not completely) that the difference is abstraction.&nbsp; Dogs doesn't play (well) without the fiction because it is too abstract so you are forced to &quot;provide&quot; said fiction.&nbsp; 4e &quot;powers&quot; &quot;provide&quot; the fiction for you so it's not necessary, but you can feel free to narrate (refluff) it if you wish.&nbsp; 4e ALSO supports free form actions (like in Dogs - DMG pg. 42) but this is more abstract and REQUIRES fiction to make it work and to adjudicate it via the rules.To understand my position you have to think of character power cards as &quot;pre-written fiction&quot;.&nbsp; Each power is self-contained and tells you what it does, to how many targets, and where.&nbsp; If you were to get rid of powers all together then every action in 4e would have to use DMG pg. 42 and you'd have a system that plays very much like Dogs does (IMO with this limited exposure).&nbsp; Eventually you'd get tired of narrating the same action over and over and dispense with the fiction OR like 4e did, you make a set of &quot;pre-defined fictions&quot; that some or all players can use.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="CovertOps, post: 5331775, member: 65152"] So based on these quotes you finally agree with my position. If 4e doesn't "require" said fiction then "I Twin Strike the kobold" is just as good as "I swing both my swords at the kobold" because there is no abstraction. I liken this to martial artists. My apologies if my terms aren't accurate since I'm not one. I would assume that most maneuvers in Karate, Judo, etc. have names of some sort or another. For example "Roundhouse kick" or "Leg sweep". I would imagine that in the game world (fiction) each of the abilities your character knows was given a name. It may or may not be the same text that is the "name" of your characters "power". If we assume that "Tide of Iron" is a specific NAMED ability that your character learned, then when the player says "I Tide of Iron the Kobold" it IS the fiction. This is just the same as the Wizard saying "I cast Fireball on the Kobold". Fireball being the name of the spell he learned in Wizard school. I get what you are saying about Dogs and I now see (although not completely) that the difference is abstraction. Dogs doesn't play (well) without the fiction because it is too abstract so you are forced to "provide" said fiction. 4e "powers" "provide" the fiction for you so it's not necessary, but you can feel free to narrate (refluff) it if you wish. 4e ALSO supports free form actions (like in Dogs - DMG pg. 42) but this is more abstract and REQUIRES fiction to make it work and to adjudicate it via the rules. To understand my position you have to think of character power cards as "pre-written fiction". Each power is self-contained and tells you what it does, to how many targets, and where. If you were to get rid of powers all together then every action in 4e would have to use DMG pg. 42 and you'd have a system that plays very much like Dogs does (IMO with this limited exposure). Eventually you'd get tired of narrating the same action over and over and dispense with the fiction OR like 4e did, you make a set of "pre-defined fictions" that some or all players can use. [/QUOTE]

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