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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 5337926" data-attributes="member: 22779">And this is where we disagree.  You can claim, "I'm climbing the wall" all you like.  You can claim exactly how you want to climb that wall - quickly, carefully, dancing, whatever.  But, until you roll that climb check, you're standing at the bottom of the wall doing nothing.  Nothing actually happens in the game world until you roll.  And that roll defines what happens.  You can narrate it, again, however you wish.  If you succeed on the climb check, you move a certain distance.  But until you make that roll, you don't move an inch.Until you roll that attack, you don't attack.Until you roll, you don't actually do anything.At least you don't do anything that is mechanically determined.  If an action is not mechanically determined, you can narrate however you see fit and you do that action.  But, as soon as an action is determined by mechanics, you don't even start until you roll.And this is true in most (sorry, mispoke the first time) RPG's.  It's always been true in D&D.Quoting out of order because a further thought occuredLet's break down your narrative for a second:<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">I run up to the orc - not mechanically determined - although distance is, there are no checks for running up to the orc.  But, what happens if there is a pit trap in front of the orc?  Now your narrative contradicts events in the game? </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">and slam my shield into him trying to push him back. - This IS mechanically determined though.  Again, what happens if you miss?  Your narrative is wrong again - you didn't slam your shield into him.</li> </ul>You keep adding and dropping "I try" into the sentences as needed.  The narrative you came up with is entirely dependent on the mechanics.  If something prevents your movement, your narrative fails.  If you miss, your narrative fails. And you, the player have ZERO control over any of that.If I say nothing other than, "I move here and use tide of iron to Push 1", it's exactly the same.  Sure, your description is more interesting, but, from a game perspective, nothing changes.The in game narrative is determined by the mechanics, not the other way around.  The narrative is determined AFTER the fact, not before.  You can claim intentions until the cows come home, but, until the dice are rolled, the in-game narrative is in a cloud of mechanics that don't resolve until the mechanics tell you how they are resolved.Being fluffy and flavourful is good role-playing.  Totally agree.  But, not being fluffy and flavourful is not bad role-playing.  It makes zero difference to the game.Just like role playing in Monopoly.  The only things I could actually, really narrative before resolution is whether or not a buy a property or choose to build a hotel, because that's the only action in Monopoly that is not mechanically determined.  Everything else occurs after mechanical resolution.Just like any mechanically determined event in most RPG's.</blockquote>

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