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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Majoru Oakheart" data-source="post: 5338599" data-attributes="member: 5143">There are always things preventing you from taking every action.  Slippery floors prevent you from walking, invisible walls prevent you from grabbing, spells can lock you in place.  Which is why in all the games I've played in, the player isn't allowed to narrate anything.  They are allowed to say what they want to do and the DM tells them if they are able to do it, what rolls they need to do, and what the final result is.But there ARE mechanics that apply every time you try to kill someone.  That's the rules, at least in 4e D&D.  You need to decide what power you're using to kill the kobold and you need an attack roll and a damage roll.It isn't up to anyone at the table to decide you kill the kobold except the DM who might decide to waive the rules in this particular case.Or Mechanics.  After all, how far you can move is determined by the speed of your character, whether you can move at all is determined by what status effects you have on you and whether you have a move action free to run up to the Orc.You also need to determine mechanically whether you meant you are using the Run action or just moving your speed, since each one has consequences mechanically.Really, "I run up to the orc" is a flowery way of saying "I use the run action to move my speed+2 in this direction".  It isn't fictional at all.At least any more than "I run to Boardwalk!" is a fiction when you roll a 5 on the dice in Monopoly and land on Boardwalk.Also mechanics.  The trap is a level 5 pit trap that provides a certain amount of XP.  It has a stat block, which determines when it triggers and what effects it has when it triggers.  It was put there because the DM thought it would be an appropriate challenge for your characters, would be interesting to encounter, and was within his/her XP budget.It is triggering because you entered one if its spaces.Also mechanics.  Leaping over the pit is an action defined in the rules.  It is given to you as an option because the rules say so.  "I leap over the pit" is short form for "I use Athletics to attempt to get to the other side of the pit".It is no more fictional than "I buy Boardwalk!" is in Monopoly.This part IS fiction.  It's simply a fictional description of what happens when you fail a jump check.  So, the fiction was determined by the mechanics anyways.  It could be replaced with "You failed your jump check, you fall into the pit" without any practical difference other than the feelings or tension it invokes in the players at the table.Yep, fiction.  It's just a flowery description of "You take 10 damage and 5 ongoing poison".  In other words, it has no practical effect on the game other than the feeling it invokes.I don't see that at all.  The fiction in this case is simply describing the mechanics.  You aren't going to describe the punctures on the arm and the sticky substance in the wound if the trap misses or if it didn't do poison damage as part of its stat block.It's because of the mechanics(its bonus to hit, its damage line, the result of the dice) that the fiction happens.The truth is, I don't see the difference between the "fiction" and the mechanics.  Mechanics are game ways of describing fiction and vice versa."I jump over the pit" and "I roll a 24 on my Athletics check to get over the pit" are two ways of saying the exact same thing.  In both cases, the actions your character is taking is the same as is the result.  They are both fiction and they are both mechanics.There are a number of things you can't do fictionally.  If someone at my table says "I teleport to the other side of the Orc" and they don't have a power that lets them teleport, then they can't.  The same thing applies to attempting to fly, trip, disarm, charm, become invisible, and any number of other actions.Simply saying something in fiction doesn't make it true.  You need an equivalent game mechanic that goes with it.Page 42 may or may not apply in this circumstance.  Page 42 gets abused by many DMs.  It's a handy reference for attacks that don't come from your powers and how many damage they should do.  However, in order to use Page 42, you need to be trained in acrobatics and it must actually be an acrobatic stunt of some sort.In my games if someone said "I slam my shield into the orc and attempt to push them back", I'd ask what power they are using to do that.  If they didn't have one, I'd say "That sounds like a bull rush to me, make a roll for that".Here, I agree with you, at least mostly.  I think the swinging of the sword and the mechanics that go with it are linked.  You aren't swinging your sword unless you are telling me which game mechanics you are using to swing your sword and you aren't hitting with your sword until you roll a dice to determine that.Considering "I swing my sword" could just as easily be the description of a 30th level daily as it is a basic attack.  It could be a free action all the way to a standard action.  Whether you are allowed to even begin the swing is determined by what type of action it takes, what type of actions you have left, whether there are status effects on you, and sometimes whether you have already used the power that lets you swing your sword.See above.  It isn't always your choice.  The swinging your sword action is almost always available because you have an at-will basic attack.  However, replace swinging your sword with "I assume Primal Guardian form" or "I teleport" or any number of other actions and whether you can even attempt them may not be your choice.  The DM or game mechanics may decide for you.I ask what power he is using to thrash at the orc.  If it's a basic attack, I ask him to roll a basic attack against the orc.  I decide on the orc's next action if I consider the PC scary enough to get away from Jim the Wizard.No matter what, there is a huge list of things you can't do.  Way more than the list of things you CAN do.  You can say "I convince the most powerful dragon on the planet to attack that city for us" but if you aren't in front of the dragon, you don't know where the dragon is, and the DM has decided that it's a DC 40 Diplomacy check to convince him(and you only have +1) then you can't do it.  It's simply not an option.Often wandering off on your own and refusing to work with the rest of the party is not an option, because you stop playing the game.  Killing off your fellow PCs(in many games) is not an option.  Sometimes it's not an option to deny an adventure hook because your DM has nothing else planned and saying no means not playing that day.Having your actions limited does not stop a game from being a roleplaying game.  A roleplaying game is a game in which you play a role and attempt to make decisions as if you were actually the role you are portraying.  But it's also a game, so sometimes your actions need to be limited to make the game more fun for everyone.And saying "That's not a roleplaying game, that's a board game!" is rather insulting.  I've never heard anyone use that phrase without meaning "You've managed to dumb the game down to a lesser level".  I don't consider it to be any lesser.  Just different.</blockquote>

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