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<blockquote data-quote="P1NBACK" data-source="post: 5338618" data-attributes="member: 83768"><p>Exactly. Those things you can "try" they are imagined events (i.e. fiction) that can have a <strong><em>direct impact</em></strong> on the game. In your words, you can "try anything" (although 'anything' in this case is our shared setting/color/etc... so that the 'anything' at your table might change depending on the game and the players or both). </p><p></p><p>In Monopoly, I can't, for example, decide to go rob the bank right? Even though I can "imagine it" and describe my character doing it, it doesn't have any bearing on what the actual game allows for. </p><p></p><p>An RPG, will allow this. In 4E, I can (and should) do whatever I can imagine and describe (of course, within our group's agreed upon limits - which vary as much as there are groups - which is why LostSoul makes the point that the people you play with are almost as important as the game you are playing - this is fine - it's part of RPGs). </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>These are pretty much the same thing. So long as you are making the clear distinction that (like a previous poster said) you're using the words "Tide of Iron" as a fictional maneuver. If you say, "I use my Tide of Iron power...", that's a mechanical statement (this is why I prefer a description of what the power does - as I mentioned pages ago, I haven't memorized the names for every power, so if you say, "I use Thromgard's Ever-Punishing Brutalization" - it means nothing to most of us at the table fictionally. <strong><em>Describe what that means</em></strong>... It can be simple - and we can even acknowledge that Thromgard's Ever-Punishing Brutalization means that from now on - as a fictional maneuver akin to "flying kick" or whatever. Sure. I can buy that.)</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Exactly. Sounds awesome. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The power itself is not pre-written fiction though. It alludes to pre-written fiction and gives an example (that's why they have the "flavor text" in the bottom). If you took away all the "names" of powers and used the flavor text instead (modifying it to the situation) you'd be <strong><em>made of win</em></strong>. But a power, in and of itself, is mechanical resolution for a potential fictional move. Like you said, pre-fabbed. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Oh yeah! I agree! That choice is what makes it an RPG. But, we still need the fiction there to <strong><em>have that choice</em></strong>. That's what I mean. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>That's not what I'm claiming though. I'm claiming that if there is no clouds, no fiction generated at the table, you're not roleplaying. If the only thing there is mechanical artifacts (dice, minis, map), you're playing a boardgame. If you're generating fiction, and allowing that fiction to impact the game directly (as we discussed above) you are roleplaying. </p><p></p><p>I classify 4E D&D as a roleplaying game. I <strong><em>never </em></strong>said it wasn't. I said it <strong><em>could be played</em></strong> as a board game in combat if you allow it to be that. That is, if you <strong><em>ignore </em></strong>page 42 and the fiction making an impact on the rules (this is my argument for not allowing a human sized man to grab a gargantuan swarm of orcs... or alternatively, allowing a swarm of rats to be pushed with forced movement - both depending on the fiction), you are headed toward that "boardgame mode" I'm talking about. </p><p></p><p>Does that make sense? </p><p></p><p>p.s. You never PM'd me about my best example of fiction interweaving with the rules... If you're interested, PM me. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="P1NBACK, post: 5338618, member: 83768"] Exactly. Those things you can "try" they are imagined events (i.e. fiction) that can have a [B][I]direct impact[/I][/B] on the game. In your words, you can "try anything" (although 'anything' in this case is our shared setting/color/etc... so that the 'anything' at your table might change depending on the game and the players or both). In Monopoly, I can't, for example, decide to go rob the bank right? Even though I can "imagine it" and describe my character doing it, it doesn't have any bearing on what the actual game allows for. An RPG, will allow this. In 4E, I can (and should) do whatever I can imagine and describe (of course, within our group's agreed upon limits - which vary as much as there are groups - which is why LostSoul makes the point that the people you play with are almost as important as the game you are playing - this is fine - it's part of RPGs). These are pretty much the same thing. So long as you are making the clear distinction that (like a previous poster said) you're using the words "Tide of Iron" as a fictional maneuver. If you say, "I use my Tide of Iron power...", that's a mechanical statement (this is why I prefer a description of what the power does - as I mentioned pages ago, I haven't memorized the names for every power, so if you say, "I use Thromgard's Ever-Punishing Brutalization" - it means nothing to most of us at the table fictionally. [B][I]Describe what that means[/I][/B]... It can be simple - and we can even acknowledge that Thromgard's Ever-Punishing Brutalization means that from now on - as a fictional maneuver akin to "flying kick" or whatever. Sure. I can buy that.) Exactly. Sounds awesome. The power itself is not pre-written fiction though. It alludes to pre-written fiction and gives an example (that's why they have the "flavor text" in the bottom). If you took away all the "names" of powers and used the flavor text instead (modifying it to the situation) you'd be [B][I]made of win[/I][/B]. But a power, in and of itself, is mechanical resolution for a potential fictional move. Like you said, pre-fabbed. Oh yeah! I agree! That choice is what makes it an RPG. But, we still need the fiction there to [B][I]have that choice[/I][/B]. That's what I mean. That's not what I'm claiming though. I'm claiming that if there is no clouds, no fiction generated at the table, you're not roleplaying. If the only thing there is mechanical artifacts (dice, minis, map), you're playing a boardgame. If you're generating fiction, and allowing that fiction to impact the game directly (as we discussed above) you are roleplaying. I classify 4E D&D as a roleplaying game. I [B][I]never [/I][/B]said it wasn't. I said it [B][I]could be played[/I][/B] as a board game in combat if you allow it to be that. That is, if you [B][I]ignore [/I][/B]page 42 and the fiction making an impact on the rules (this is my argument for not allowing a human sized man to grab a gargantuan swarm of orcs... or alternatively, allowing a swarm of rats to be pushed with forced movement - both depending on the fiction), you are headed toward that "boardgame mode" I'm talking about. Does that make sense? p.s. You never PM'd me about my best example of fiction interweaving with the rules... If you're interested, PM me. ;) [/QUOTE]
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