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<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 5339164" data-attributes="member: 22779">TLDR.&nbsp; You've pretty much misread everything I've said, so, I'll take one last stab at this and call it quits.Nope.&nbsp; And that's where you've misread me.&nbsp; Grabbing your arm IS mechanically determined.&nbsp; That you choose not to stop him means that you have forgone (declared that you fail) the mechanical determination, but, that doesn't mean it's not there.&nbsp; Grabbing someone is something that is covered by the mechanics.So, yes, technically, he should roll a to-hit to grab your arm.&nbsp; He could roll a &quot;1&quot; and automatically fail.&nbsp; But, most of the time, we simply ignore that and get on with the game.That's not what I said.What I said is that you cannot do anything that is MECHANICALLY DETERMINED without using the mechanics first.&nbsp; You can choose to ignore the mechanics, and that's fine, but that doesn't mean the mechanics aren't there.Walking across the room is not mechanically determined.&nbsp; Therefore you can do it any time you like.Attacking someone IS mechanically determined.&nbsp; You cannot narrate your attack until after it is resolved.&nbsp; Well, that's not quite true.&nbsp; You can narrate first, but, that narration has no effect whatsoever upon the resolution of that action in D&amp;D.&nbsp; There are games that do allow for it, but, D&amp;D has never been one of them.As I said, you can claim to run behind the monster and stab him in the back until you're blue in the face, but, unless there's an ally across from you, you get no bonuses.You can claim that you climb the wall all you like, but, until you roll, nothing happens in the game world.&nbsp; You DO NOT MOVE UP THE WALL until you roll the dice.&nbsp; Your vertical movement is exactly zero until those dice hit the table.&nbsp; You can narrate anything you like and it is meaningless until after you roll.And that's true for most RPG's.&nbsp; While some RPG's do try to get you to narrate first, many do not.&nbsp; Heck, many RPG's randomly determine the fiction - GURPS combat tells you where you hit the bad guy randomly.&nbsp; I believe Role Master does the same.&nbsp; You can't even claim to be aiming somewhere (although I do believe there are rules for called shots) normally.Let me repeat myself here.&nbsp; Anything that is NOT determined by the mechanics of the game can be narrated in any fashion the player wishes.&nbsp; Any action which requires mechanical resolution, cannot be.&nbsp; Any mechanically determined action must be resolved before you narrate.If you do it beforehand, you will be forced to retcon the narration more often than not and it leads to the mechanics being disassociated from the narration.&nbsp; If you narrate AFTER an element is resolved, then there is never any disassociation.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 5339164, member: 22779"] TLDR. You've pretty much misread everything I've said, so, I'll take one last stab at this and call it quits. Nope. And that's where you've misread me. Grabbing your arm IS mechanically determined. That you choose not to stop him means that you have forgone (declared that you fail) the mechanical determination, but, that doesn't mean it's not there. Grabbing someone is something that is covered by the mechanics. So, yes, technically, he should roll a to-hit to grab your arm. He could roll a "1" and automatically fail. But, most of the time, we simply ignore that and get on with the game. That's not what I said. What I said is that you cannot do anything that is MECHANICALLY DETERMINED without using the mechanics first. You can choose to ignore the mechanics, and that's fine, but that doesn't mean the mechanics aren't there. Walking across the room is not mechanically determined. Therefore you can do it any time you like. Attacking someone IS mechanically determined. You cannot narrate your attack until after it is resolved. Well, that's not quite true. You can narrate first, but, that narration has no effect whatsoever upon the resolution of that action in D&D. There are games that do allow for it, but, D&D has never been one of them. As I said, you can claim to run behind the monster and stab him in the back until you're blue in the face, but, unless there's an ally across from you, you get no bonuses. You can claim that you climb the wall all you like, but, until you roll, nothing happens in the game world. You DO NOT MOVE UP THE WALL until you roll the dice. Your vertical movement is exactly zero until those dice hit the table. You can narrate anything you like and it is meaningless until after you roll. And that's true for most RPG's. While some RPG's do try to get you to narrate first, many do not. Heck, many RPG's randomly determine the fiction - GURPS combat tells you where you hit the bad guy randomly. I believe Role Master does the same. You can't even claim to be aiming somewhere (although I do believe there are rules for called shots) normally. Let me repeat myself here. Anything that is [B][U]NOT[/U][/B] determined by the mechanics of the game can be narrated in any fashion the player wishes. Any action which requires mechanical resolution, cannot be. Any mechanically determined action must be resolved before you narrate. If you do it beforehand, you will be forced to retcon the narration more often than not and it leads to the mechanics being disassociated from the narration. If you narrate AFTER an element is resolved, then there is never any disassociation. [/QUOTE]

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