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<blockquote data-quote="JohnSnow" data-source="post: 3935317" data-attributes="member: 32164">To steal an analogy from dog-training, it seems to me that 4e is focusing on the 'reward' model of behavior modification rather than the 'newspaper to the nose' model.3e penalized you for playing badly and not fulfilling your role properly. Occasionally, you even got penalized for playing correctly (cleric doesn't get to participate in the fight because he's busy healing somebody). Many players find being relegated to that support role &quot;unfun.&quot; 4e, by contrast, is holding out incentives for characters who do what they're supposed to do. There's no newspaper to the nose, just a nice treat if you do the right thing - that is, fill your role.&nbsp;I have to ask all the people saying this: do you play the heal-monkey cleric in your current group? If so, then I guess you have a right to that opinion. On the other hand, if you don't, is it because you find it &quot;more fun&quot; to have a different role in the fight?And doesn't that say something?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="JohnSnow, post: 3935317, member: 32164"] To steal an analogy from dog-training, it seems to me that 4e is focusing on the 'reward' model of behavior modification rather than the 'newspaper to the nose' model. 3e penalized you for [i]playing badly[/i] and not fulfilling your role properly. Occasionally, you even got penalized for playing correctly (cleric doesn't get to participate in the fight because he's busy healing somebody). Many players find being relegated to that support role "unfun." 4e, by contrast, is holding out incentives for characters who do what they're [i]supposed to do.[/i] There's no newspaper to the nose, just a nice treat if you do the [i]right[/i] thing - that is, fill your role. I have to ask all the people saying this: do you play the heal-monkey cleric in your current group? If so, then I guess you have a right to that opinion. On the other hand, if you don't, is it because you find it "more fun" to have a different role in the fight? And doesn't that say something? [/QUOTE]

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