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<blockquote data-quote="Obryn" data-source="post: 4832305" data-attributes="member: 11821">I'm going to guess that a lot of times when you see this discussion prop up, there are some fairly complex realities.(1) AD&amp;D, as-written, implied use of miniatures regularly in the rules, regardless of how Gary Gygax did or did not play.(2) A great many players used minis for AD&amp;D.(3) Not everyone did.(4) They weren't as integral to gameplay as they became in 3e, and particularly 3.5 and 4e.(5) Likely, the preponderance of people still playing AD&amp;D today don't want to play with minis.&nbsp; If they resisted 3e/4e, or played 3e/4e and returned to AD&amp;D, reliance on miniatures may be one of the reasons for their dissatisfaction with the WotC editions.(6) Possibly - but not as definitely - people playing 1e or 2e who used minis for their games may have found the transition to 3.0 easier and more welcome.&nbsp; So, the population of &quot;holdouts&quot; (so to speak) might be stacked with the non-minis crowd.My guess is that people who play AD&amp;D now might see minis usage as being something they're avoiding in their own games, so the implication they're necessary flies in the face of their personal experience.&nbsp; I think it's pretty undeniable that it's easier to ignore 1e's miniatures rules than it is 3e's, 3.5e's, or 4e's.&nbsp; I don't use minis in my 1e game, though at times I wish I did and think they'd be helpful. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />&nbsp; (Darkness spells, hallways, formation fighting.... yeah.)As a side note, I think discussions of how Gary did or didn't play is a smokescreen.&nbsp; He wrote the rules, but millions played the game, and while his gameplay experiences are fascinating, he's still just one player.&nbsp; I also don't know how it matters whether or not people used minis in the 70's and 80's - clearly, they were an available game aid and a revenue stream of some sort for TSR.&nbsp; And clearly, some tables used them, and some didn't.-O</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Obryn, post: 4832305, member: 11821"] I'm going to guess that a lot of times when you see this discussion prop up, there are some fairly complex realities. (1) AD&D, as-written, implied use of miniatures regularly in the rules, regardless of how Gary Gygax did or did not play. (2) A great many players used minis for AD&D. (3) Not everyone did. (4) They weren't as integral to gameplay as they became in 3e, and particularly 3.5 and 4e. (5) Likely, the preponderance of people still playing AD&D today don't want to play with minis. If they resisted 3e/4e, or played 3e/4e and returned to AD&D, reliance on miniatures may be one of the reasons for their dissatisfaction with the WotC editions. (6) Possibly - but not as definitely - people playing 1e or 2e who used minis for their games may have found the transition to 3.0 easier and more welcome. So, the population of "holdouts" (so to speak) might be stacked with the non-minis crowd. My guess is that people who play AD&D now might see minis usage as being something they're avoiding in their own games, so the implication they're necessary flies in the face of their personal experience. I think it's pretty undeniable that it's easier to ignore 1e's miniatures rules than it is 3e's, 3.5e's, or 4e's. I don't use minis in my 1e game, though at times I wish I did and think they'd be helpful. :) (Darkness spells, hallways, formation fighting.... yeah.) As a side note, I think discussions of how Gary did or didn't play is a smokescreen. He wrote the rules, but millions played the game, and while his gameplay experiences are fascinating, he's still just one player. I also don't know how it matters whether or not people used minis in the 70's and 80's - clearly, they were an available game aid and a revenue stream of some sort for TSR. And clearly, some tables used them, and some didn't. -O [/QUOTE]

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