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Message: <blockquote data-quote="I'm A Banana" data-source="post: 4552534" data-attributes="member: 2067">Man, this thread is all over the place....but that's probably a good thing.For my mileage, I admit I'm a very acidic critic, and that I will defend criticisms over praises most of the time, but that's not really founded in a preference for any edition. I can see a definite logic behind each and every choice in 4e, and I'm more interested in discovering how that logic meets certain goals, and fails to meet others, and how things could have gone differently (such as figuring out the merits of certain goals as opposed to others).What probably most annoys me about a lot of the Edition Wars is when one side assumes the other is somehow illegitimate. When a older-edition fan claims that 4e destroys everything great about D&D, it annoys me because it assumes that the people who love 4e aren't "true fans" of D&D, and are thus unfit to comment on what "D&D" should be. It's more interesting for me to see where playstyles differ, and how 4e may have subtly changed or continued to change the assumed playstyle (cementing a move from "dungeon exploration" to "combat encounters" that was probably begun long ago, for instance). When a 4e fan claims that someone's problem with 4e isn't really a problem if you're creative enough, it annoys me because it assumes that the person is just being obstinate, rather than have a genuine issue. That's what annoyed me about the title of the thread this got forked from. It seems to want to make the argument that a criticism of 4e isn't legit because it's somehow sentimentally rooted. I like the discussions, I like figuring out how people play and what they play and the different playstyles and why certain games hit them better than others. This is why I am such an acidic critic at times: so I can make my games (and, ideally, others' games) better. What I don't like is when one side or the other tries to pre-emptively get the LAST WORD in by coloring most criticism or most praise as somehow invalid.There is no last word. 4e will always be criticized, even into 5e, and those criticism will mostly have a point to them -- the critics aren't just sentimental grognards who fear change. And regardless of the criticism, 4e will probably last about 6-10 years, and have a lot of totally logical fans who aren't just rabid fanboys of the fresh new thing.I say this as a 4e player, and (recently) a 4e DM, and a HUGELY VOCAL 4e critic. This isn't about being RIGHT. This is about discussing what we like, what we don't like, and what might be the best way for WotC to give most of us what we like without alienating most of those that don't like certain parts of it.That discussion is interesting.But it's not one that you can win.Don't try to win. Just try to learn.</blockquote>

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