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Message: <blockquote data-quote="WalterKovacs" data-source="post: 4555150" data-attributes="member: 63763">At the same time though ... it's a matter of perspective. For a narrative ... the fighter is able to trick an opponent ONCE into falling for some sort of baiting. It's an encounter power in part because it isn't going to work on the same guy twice. The main problem is that, in other editions, you have to explain "but why did it happen?" In this case it's just a matter of, whatever save would have been made ... wasn't. The fighter, because he trained in that power, has found ways to trick even the smartest and most willful of foes to temporarily lose their cool. There is more narrative footwork in part because more people have demanded it ... and because 3.5 was very "this is how the world works" mechanics wise, explaining how everythng works the same for NPCs, monsters, PCs, etc ... 4e's exception based design doesn't fiddle with the internal stuff. It knows about point A and point B ... it doesn't talk about what happens in between. Instead of having a taunt mechanic that explains how the concept of taunting an opponent works, etc, etc, etc, they just have it. Instead of having powers that work against most enemies, but not against all, they just have it work all the time. The times where it makes sense should outway the times it doesn't. Also, if a fighter already has the magnet that is the mark ... he can use that same "power" for pulling people towards him. The thing with the narrative footwork is ... that is all that can be used to explain "what happens during a power". It isn't a case of a number of mechanic effects combined to create a single effect. It's a power that is intentionally "make your own flavor text" and just gives you cause and effect, so to speak, so any flavor you want to put onto it can work. You can come up with an action movie cliche, or a super hero genre explanation, etc. Ultimately though, the powers work because the PC is invoking plot control on the narrative game. "I want to taunt that guy and have him come at me". Instead of having to make some sort of check, he has a power he can only use once during a fight. EDIT: Ultimately, a figher/rogue/ranger (not going to get into warlord healing) doesn't have to be "mystical" or "magical". It is possible, using mundane explanations, to have someone, for example, draw their opponent in and attack them. It may not make sense that it works every time, but it is possible that an action hero starts hurling insults and challenges and the bad guys go for it. The game takes narrative shortcuts. Instead of having all the parts of the game built on simulationist framework where they explain how everything works, they just say what happens when you use the power. Unfortunately, if you just say "ths happens" it's probably going to seem like magic.  The thing is ... sure he can pull a smart guy that shouldn't fall for it towards him ... but then again, that smart guy was awfully close to him in the first place. The sliding powers of the rogue and fighter involve a combat situation where a martial character is trained in leading the person he's fighing about the battlefield, forcing them to go where they want to go. Many of these powers are not at-will ... it means you CAN pull it off, but it only works once, and then the enemy learns from that mistake. Instead of having a whole system in place to figure out whether or not it works just as a means for explaining how it works in the first place seems like a lot of work just to justify giving them something they can concievably do, but seems odd they can do so frequently and reliably.</blockquote>

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