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Message: <blockquote data-quote="phloog" data-source="post: 4556361" data-attributes="member: 59219">I think we are using different definitions of 'mundane', or your definition is moving about. When I say 'mundane', I do NOT mean 'run of the mill', 'normal', 'bleh', etc. I mean 'possessing no arcane or mystical abilities' - sort of the Xanth book definition I guess. So Jessica Alba has exceptional beauty, but by my definition she is mundane. Conan and Aragorn WERE mundane in my opinion, and I feel that it is precisely BECAUSE they didn't throw fireballs around, fly, or mystically suck all enemies within a burst to striking range.  They were able to defeat great foes because they were vastly superior to the common man, but made from the same matter and in possession of no mystical powers.  Being able to fight and defeat demons, dragons, Nazgul, etc. does not make you magical or non-mundane in my campaign, it makes you a HERO - an exceptional specimen, whether or not you have the ability to do magic. If I've missed the REH book where Conan does something that I would consider mystical forgive me. I will grant you that he is not 'normal', and further that perhaps his combination of strength, skill, dexterity, and tactical ability has never before been seen in real life. But all of these attributes are a 'pushing the limits' of what normal folk can do thing, and NOT magic. For my campaign accepting that these abilities can be developed by normal, non-mystical ways to high levels is consistent with the stories I want to tell...in your campaign apparently all fighters who are able to defeat powerful enemies must be magical...it just doesn't work for me. Saying that my own tubby frame is no match for a Nazgul is diverting the argument (though I've heard you can fight them off by just waving a flaming stick at them).  The point is that it does not take me a huge amount of 'hand waving' to imagine a human who has no magical abilities, but is just insanely good at combat...so good that they CAN fight these beasts and have a chance to win. If you want to call them superhuman then fine, but the NATURE of these abilities stems from their normal human attributes built up to high levels. Again it's a flavor of the campaign thing. My campaign supports a Conan-like figure who has immense strength, immense skill, and based only upon these highly developed (by NON-MAGICAL means) abilities can fight dragons and win. I don't need magical powers for fighters, and a rules system that introduces things that seem like magic to all classes removes this option for players, or at least makes it tougher. EDIT: Also, you should realize that in my campaign I would most likely never have the Tarrasque...the strongest creatures I tend to use are larger dragons and demons, and my campaign works just peachy with highly advanced Conan types taking down dragons.</blockquote>

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