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<blockquote data-quote="Thasmodious" data-source="post: 4556753" data-attributes="member: 63272">F=female.You chose those examples to illustrate your point that these acts were carried out without the need for &quot;superpowers&quot; which is how you choose to derogatorily describe the 4e power framework.&nbsp; I coutnered by showing how the examples YOU CHOSE could play out in 4e.&nbsp; Yes, there are a couple of powers that, when looked at in a certain way, could be seen as a bit beyond the pale as martial powers.&nbsp; But there are only a few of them, and you really do have to cock your head sideways and stick out your tongue to see them that way.&nbsp; Come and Get It only seems like a superpower if you insist on looking at it as some magical compulsion that force pulls opponents into orbit around the fighter.&nbsp; That, to me, is cocking your head sideways and sticking out your tongue.&nbsp; Especially when a dozen posters describe two dozen other ways to conceive of that effect.&nbsp; It's not a stretch, its not scrambling for some kind of justification, it's simply the narrative.&nbsp; What you are calling metagame is nothing more than a shift in the narrative.&nbsp; It's no more metagame for the player to describe the effect than it is for the DM.&nbsp; It's just a shift, putting some of the immediate narrative in the hands of the players instead of the DM, in a limited fashion.&nbsp; It's not somehow more metagame-y for the player to say &quot;I stun him&quot; than it is for the DM to say &quot;You stun him.&quot;&nbsp; It's just a sharing of the combat narrative.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Thasmodious, post: 4556753, member: 63272"] F=female. You chose those examples to illustrate your point that these acts were carried out without the need for "superpowers" which is how you choose to derogatorily describe the 4e power framework. I coutnered by showing how the examples YOU CHOSE could play out in 4e. Yes, there are a couple of powers that, when looked at in a certain way, could be seen as a bit beyond the pale as martial powers. But there are only a few of them, and you really do have to cock your head sideways and stick out your tongue to see them that way. Come and Get It only seems like a superpower if you insist on looking at it as some magical compulsion that force pulls opponents into orbit around the fighter. That, to me, is cocking your head sideways and sticking out your tongue. Especially when a dozen posters describe two dozen other ways to conceive of that effect. It's not a stretch, its not scrambling for some kind of justification, it's simply the narrative. What you are calling metagame is nothing more than a shift in the narrative. It's no more metagame for the player to describe the effect than it is for the DM. It's just a shift, putting some of the immediate narrative in the hands of the players instead of the DM, in a limited fashion. It's not somehow more metagame-y for the player to say "I stun him" than it is for the DM to say "You stun him." It's just a sharing of the combat narrative. [/QUOTE]

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