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<blockquote data-quote="phloog" data-source="post: 4557914" data-attributes="member: 59219">You're kind of flipping the argument in a direction I don't think I ever suggested (a bit strawman-y, to be Whedonesque).&nbsp;Even CAGI could happen in the real world - I taunt everyone and they all rush me. I don't know that I've ever suggested that it could NEVER happen....you are using your argument that it COULD happen to try to dismiss my issue with the fact that it ALWAYS works, and ALWAYS draws in all foes regardless of their own statistics, abilities, and desires.&nbsp;Could the martial artist say 'come and get it' and every drunk yokel who's already itching for a fight in the bar does indeed move adjacent to him? Absolutely it could happen...this isn't the argument I'm making at all. &nbsp;The argument I'm making is about enemies who are not drunk, who have incredible ability to size up an opponent, supreme willpower, and who are armed with a magic wand that does insta-kill damage so long as they are not adjacent to their target...because you know what these towers of intellect do in 4e? They forget all else and rush the fighter...this is where it becomes mystical (FOR ME, remember).&nbsp;EDIT: ALSO, as a former player and someone who LOVES Earthdawn, my memory was sparked by an earlier post.&nbsp; I had no problem with powers of the warrior class in that game being odd and hard to explain in mundane (=non-magical) terms, because that's the world/campaign that's being run....EVERYTHING is magical.&nbsp; If I wanted that in D&amp;D, I would (like many here) not have this issue with 4th edition.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="phloog, post: 4557914, member: 59219"] You're kind of flipping the argument in a direction I don't think I ever suggested (a bit strawman-y, to be Whedonesque). Even CAGI could happen in the real world - I taunt everyone and they all rush me. I don't know that I've ever suggested that it could NEVER happen....you are using your argument that it COULD happen to try to dismiss my issue with the fact that it ALWAYS works, and ALWAYS draws in all foes regardless of their own statistics, abilities, and desires. Could the martial artist say 'come and get it' and every drunk yokel who's already itching for a fight in the bar does indeed move adjacent to him? Absolutely it could happen...this isn't the argument I'm making at all. The argument I'm making is about enemies who are not drunk, who have incredible ability to size up an opponent, supreme willpower, and who are armed with a magic wand that does insta-kill damage so long as they are not adjacent to their target...because you know what these towers of intellect do in 4e? They forget all else and rush the fighter...this is where it becomes mystical (FOR ME, remember). EDIT: ALSO, as a former player and someone who LOVES Earthdawn, my memory was sparked by an earlier post. I had no problem with powers of the warrior class in that game being odd and hard to explain in mundane (=non-magical) terms, because that's the world/campaign that's being run....EVERYTHING is magical. If I wanted that in D&D, I would (like many here) not have this issue with 4th edition. [/QUOTE]

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