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Message: <blockquote data-quote="joethelawyer" data-source="post: 4392580" data-attributes="member: 55764">the gord the rogue books novelize the 1e system.   the drizz't books novelize the 2e system.  the war of the spider queen books novelize the 3e system.  by novelize i mean if you read the books you can see the various game systems coming through the books, and the systems kind of make sense in the context of the books.  for example, i remember one scene in the gord books where he and the elf or half elf woman were sneaking around somewhere, and the elf found a secret passage.  gord made a remark about the stories he heard about elven perception.  which obviously goes back to the elves detect secret doors 1 in 6 just passing by them from 1e.the whole phaerun character epitomized a well played wizard character in 3e, down to intimate descriptions of the vancian spellcasting system and its limitations.  the drow clerics were very well described in the drizz't books, even down to the praying for spells, and using spells in mass combat.in all these books the systems were integrated into the books in a seemless and believable way.  you believed that clerics prayed for spells, wizards memorized them, and elves can detect secret doors, and the reasons why were due to the dnd game systems the books stemmed from.  even though you knew where those aspects of the novels came from, you believed it because it MADE SENSE.  the system made sense, both in a rpg and for a novel.how can they do this with 4e?  how can they justify a fighter having healing surges?  you train all your life with sword shield and armor, and next thing you know you can close you eyes, twinkle your ears, and heal yourself.  huh?  how would you justify that in the "reality" of a novel?  where does it come from?  there is not a believable coherent system behind that to make it make sense in a novel.  you can't just say "he does it" out of nowhere, and there is no context in terms of a believable world system that justifies it.  and i guess in his spare time he learned a magic ritual or two even though he has no prior basis or training in his background to justify that ritual knowledge.  in the 4e game system you just take the ritual when you level. if that were a novel, the author would have to devote some good amount of space dealing with the basic wizardly training required to learn the basis enough to even do the ritual.  in which case he would be a multiclass wizard/fighter.  you can't just learn a spell like you learn a cheap magic trick, with no background in it, according to the first three systems.  in 4e you apparently can.i guess that's my big sticking point with 4e.  reading fantasy novels in the early 80's brought me to dnd, not the other way around. i wanted to act out the stuff i read about in novels.  no coincience my early characters were named gandalf and aragorn.i don't see myself able to do that in 4e, if i were 14 again.  it would be a mismatch.  the wrong tool for the job.however, if i were into mmorpg's, and i wanted to act out one of the characters i played there while playing dnd, it would be simple to do.  the system is much more of a fit for that.i hope this post made a little bit of sense.joe</blockquote>

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