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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Yaarel" data-source="post: 7626770" data-attributes="member: 58172">My next goal is to create a Warlord class, using the Foursome Advancement chassis, and that is suitable to use in a standard 5e party.It is difficult to decide how powerful the Warlord needs to be, because the 5e classes themselves are so imbalanced with each other. In 5e, the features of the level-1 Cleric are worth about 4 feats. The features of the Fighter are worth about 3 feats. And the features of the Wizard are worth about 2 feats. Likewise that of the Rogue are about 2 feats. The differences in power are notable.My assessments of the 5e classes are as follows.• 5e is extremely careful to avoid any overpowered features.• Oppositely, 5e has lots and lots of features that are underpowered. Sometimes even absurdly underpowered.• So, 5e requires system mastery to avoid the less useful features.• 5e preserves the ‘feel’ of old school AD&D by reintroducing the same imbalances that plagued AD&D.• In 5e, the imbalances are less noticeable because the *broken* overpowered features are gone.• But the underpowered features are still everpresent.• The 5e Cleric is extremely difficult to kill − and in this sense is good at combat. However, its ability to deal any damage is carefully gated and oppressed. (For example, even the Flamestrike that the Cleric can access at spell level 5, is crappier than the Fireball at spell level 3 that other spellcasters can access. The spells are supposed to be class-neutral, and each spell evaluated on its own merit compared to other spells. But the design to punish the Cleric remains in full force in 5e.) Figuratively speaking, the 5e Cleric is still fighting with a mace and cannot have a nice sword. When the 5e Cleric finally does get the ability to deal reasonable damage in combat, via future 5e splatbooks, its unkillability is going to make the Cleric *brokenly* overpowered. In other words, 3e ‘CoDzilla’ all over again. It is inevitable, 5e will eventuate in a 5e CoDzilla, because dealing fair amounts of damage in combat is a reasonable request for D&D players to make, and when it is available, the overpowered Defense for a ‘selfish’ Cleric, will become broken. As of now, all armor, all healing, and no damage-dealing, is the old school ‘feel’ of ‘healbot’.• In comparison, the level 1 Fighter seems ideal − about 3 feats. The features of the 5e Fighter are tricky to assess because there are so many different kinds of builds (Strength-Fighter, Dexterity-Fighter, Ranged-Fighter, and variations within each one). Some features get exploited, while other features become unusable. Even so, the ballpark figure of about 3 feats remains true. The Fighter gives a good sense of what competence in combat looks like − with both good Defense while dealing high damage Offense.• At level 1, the Wizard is subpar. Because Gygax. And the ‘feel’ of helplessness and vulnerable dependency. To be sure, the patheticness is less extreme than in old school, but the design conceit of a useless low-level magic-user remains as alive as ever.• Somewhat to my surprise, the 5e Rogue also seems subpar. This Rogue excels out of combat, but is touch-and-go in combat. The Rogue is good at avoiding being hit, but its fragility doesnt get compensated in battle in other ways, such as dealing high damage. Sneak Attack is good, but other classes deal more damage − Fighter, Barbarian, Paladin, even Ranger.• In sum, the Warlord will probably model the 5e Fighter, being worth about three feats by level 1.Personally, I care more about characters that are equal in power in the combat pillar. I love narrative and out-of-combat. At the same time, when combat does happen I want all players to participate comparably. Similarly, I want the Fighter to do better out of combat.Relatedly, when I create my own character to play, I care more about being able to create the kind of character concept that I have in mind − much more than I care about being forced to conform to an old school ‘feel’.Sometimes, I want to play a ‘Jock Wizard’, a tough, melee-competent, Wizard who fights with melee spells rather than melee swords. Sometimes I want a ‘kiting’ range-attacking Wizard who is the primary healer. And so on, for the customizability of other classes.The first goal is to get the Warlord right. With 4e in mind, my intention is for it to be with straightforward features and without Superiority Dice. But maybe Warlord fans like Superiority Dice for their Warlord?</blockquote>

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