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Message: <blockquote data-quote="timbannock" data-source="post: 4607016" data-attributes="member: 17913">Good advice here.If you do want to go with realism, remember that if the guards are not a completely efficient band of highly skilled, high morale guards, then response time is longer than you'd think.  Even if that is the case, being alerted to a response, preparing yourself for it, and locating the exact position are not easy.  Close quarters ambushes by special forces and police units prove this to be true time and time again.A fort at night is not likely to be completely silent -- not by a long stretch.  If there's any alcohol on the premises, there's likely people laughing and screaming and maybe even fighting (maybe not trying to kill each other, but "friendly" wrestling, brawling, or maybe a gambling game that goes awry).So, if the PCs get the drop on some guards, first of all, those guards don't even get a chance to make a noise until after the PCs have already acted.  If these guards aren't minions, well, then the PCs should still have anywhere upwards of a couple of minutes before the sounds of battle register with the next closest set of guards and they arrive on the scene.  If it took the PCs more than 10 rounds to fight a couple of guards, then you've got bigger problems in your adventure (potentially from either side of the DM screen).If the fort's so small that response time is only a matter of seconds, then why the hell aren't the PCs attacking it from range with fireballs and area effect stuff?  Or causing a distraction elsewhere to draw away the enemy forces?And is every guard in a 5-man group?  Does every lookout tower have 5 people crammed into it?  A realistic fort is going to man its lookout towers with the minimum it can, while still being effective.  Maybe 1-3 guards in a tower.  If these guys are minions, the PCs should wipe the floor with them.  If the fort has no reason to be on alert, assume at least half the guard is not even that perceptive...they are daydreaming, dozing off, reading a spellbook (if they are a spellcaster), or whatever.  Being a town watchman back in the Dark Ages was boring work, and pay wasn't that great.  Most people did a poor job of it, if they even bothered to try at all.Also remember the DM's best friend: if the PCs get the surprise, have planned incredibly well, and you feel that they should win, then first of all, they should just win.  If you like rolling the dice though, add +2...not just to hit, but also to damage.  This will take out the guards a little faster.  I.e., if your players sniper the two guards in the lookout tower, give them some bonuses to hit for aiming without duress, and some bonuses to damage for being able to target these guys who are probably not moving around too much, and if so, in a predictable manner.Lots of reasons the PCs should auto kill these guys, IF THEY PLAN PROPERLY (and execute said plan properly).If they don't, then by all means swarm 'em.  That would be realistic as well.Another 4e-minded way to handle it: maybe most of the guards aren't minions for whatever reason (I can't think of one, but okay).  Well, for the purposes of an incredibly well-planned attacked, make any surprised guards minions for the first round of combat.  If they get dealt with, then fine.  If not, "restore" them to non-minion status and sound the alarm.  This all happens behind the screen.Finally, if the issue is the Players metagaming and saying "I don't know if they're minions, so we shouldn't stake our lives on this tactic," then tell the Players to knock it off.  Or better yet, give them clues: "These guards are pretty good at what they do, but there are definite chinks in their patrol pattern.  As skilled as they are, you know you could beat a single patrol without much hassle if the alarm weren't raised."  Then use the ideas outlined above if they get in without sounding the alarm.</blockquote>

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