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<blockquote data-quote="franzel" data-source="post: 4071626" data-attributes="member: 14808">I disagree.&nbsp; In my experience, they are equal factors in very long combat rounds.&nbsp; And the slowdown from the rules comes in two forms:1) Rules promoting many different character actions/options combined with different, oft-increasing temporary numeric effects2) Rules adjudications/discussions/questionsOur combat rounds typically last an hour and have gone up as high as 2.25 hours in one notably ridiculous combat situation.&nbsp; This is absolutely a combination of player/DM actions (and we're not wasting a ton of time here) and rules discussions/questions/adjudications.Admittedly, some of the more egregious examples are for a 48+ level party with six party members so that just takes a while.&nbsp; But even for our lower-level campaigns (21-25), combat rounds usually take at least an hour unless it's just mop-up.I believe that the rules changes that limit options, especially at very high levels, combined with standardizing numbers and having fewer numeric buff effects to keep track of, should streamline combat significantly.&nbsp; There will always be efficiencies to be made in the players themselves, but 4e APPEARS to be a step in the right direction from a rules perspective.Adjudicating rules interactions with unusual one-off effects/situations will always take time; it doesn't matter what edition it is.&nbsp; And I don't mind if the combat takes hours, but I would like it to take more then three combat rounds (that's 18 seconds game-time for those of you keeping score at home).&nbsp; At least in 2e, three rounds spanned a whopping three minutes.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="franzel, post: 4071626, member: 14808"] I disagree. In my experience, they are equal factors in very long combat rounds. And the slowdown from the rules comes in two forms: 1) Rules promoting many different character actions/options combined with different, oft-increasing temporary numeric effects 2) Rules adjudications/discussions/questions Our combat rounds typically last an hour and have gone up as high as 2.25 hours in one notably ridiculous combat situation. This is absolutely a combination of player/DM actions (and we're not wasting a ton of time here) and rules discussions/questions/adjudications. Admittedly, some of the more egregious examples are for a 48+ level party with six party members so that just takes a while. But even for our lower-level campaigns (21-25), combat rounds usually take at least an hour unless it's just mop-up. I believe that the rules changes that limit options, especially at very high levels, combined with standardizing numbers and having fewer numeric buff effects to keep track of, should streamline combat significantly. There will always be efficiencies to be made in the players themselves, but 4e APPEARS to be a step in the right direction from a rules perspective. Adjudicating rules interactions with unusual one-off effects/situations will always take time; it doesn't matter what edition it is. And I don't mind if the combat takes hours, but I would like it to take more then three combat rounds (that's 18 seconds game-time for those of you keeping score at home). At least in 2e, three rounds spanned a whopping three minutes. [/QUOTE]

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