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4e Compared to Trad D&D; What You Lose, What You Gain
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<blockquote data-quote="Joshua Randall" data-source="post: 7528702" data-attributes="member: 7737"><p>I realize I'm always about 20 posts behind the current discussion, but anyway.</p><p></p><p><strong>Skill Challenges</strong>: they're broken because the math doesn't work (at Complexity 4 and 5 in particular), because skills are lumpily distributed across both ability scores and classes, and because while there may be a <em>statement of intent</em> about fail forward(*) there's no actual mechanics to back it up.</p><p></p><p>(*) I re-read the DM's Kit version of Skill Challenges and yes, James Wyatt is at pains to say you should allow for partial successes and that failure shouldn't end the adventure. But still... no mechanics around this.</p><p></p><p><strong>Fate</strong>: I've had excellent success integrating Fate Points, and 3 of the 4 Fate actions, into 4e.</p><p></p><p>Basically, I mapped the d20 result into a degree of success, and that in turn translates into the typical Fate outcomes (fail / tie / succeed / with style).</p><p></p><p><strong>Overcome</strong> is basically a normal Skill Check in D&D terms, but now it offers 4 different outcomes rather than just 2.</p><p><strong>Create Advantage</strong> becomes a new thing you can do as a minor action. It can generate free invokes like in normal Fate.</p><p><strong>Attack</strong>, you're piling FP into a +3 bonus. (Math says it should be higher, but I liked the parallelism with the Action Surge feat.)</p><p><strong>Defend</strong>, I haven't allowed so far, because 4e PCs are hard enough to hit already (lots of classes have defensive interrupts), and I actually really dislike when people use FP for Defense in real Fate.</p><p></p><p>It still feels like 4e to us... maybe even moreso, because with enough FP the players can exercise more control over when they *really* want their PC to knock something out the park (skill check, or landing a particularly crucial Daily power).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Joshua Randall, post: 7528702, member: 7737"] I realize I'm always about 20 posts behind the current discussion, but anyway. [B]Skill Challenges[/B]: they're broken because the math doesn't work (at Complexity 4 and 5 in particular), because skills are lumpily distributed across both ability scores and classes, and because while there may be a [I]statement of intent[/I] about fail forward(*) there's no actual mechanics to back it up. (*) I re-read the DM's Kit version of Skill Challenges and yes, James Wyatt is at pains to say you should allow for partial successes and that failure shouldn't end the adventure. But still... no mechanics around this. [B]Fate[/B]: I've had excellent success integrating Fate Points, and 3 of the 4 Fate actions, into 4e. Basically, I mapped the d20 result into a degree of success, and that in turn translates into the typical Fate outcomes (fail / tie / succeed / with style). [B]Overcome[/B] is basically a normal Skill Check in D&D terms, but now it offers 4 different outcomes rather than just 2. [B]Create Advantage[/B] becomes a new thing you can do as a minor action. It can generate free invokes like in normal Fate. [B]Attack[/B], you're piling FP into a +3 bonus. (Math says it should be higher, but I liked the parallelism with the Action Surge feat.) [B]Defend[/B], I haven't allowed so far, because 4e PCs are hard enough to hit already (lots of classes have defensive interrupts), and I actually really dislike when people use FP for Defense in real Fate. It still feels like 4e to us... maybe even moreso, because with enough FP the players can exercise more control over when they *really* want their PC to knock something out the park (skill check, or landing a particularly crucial Daily power). [/QUOTE]
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