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D&D Older Editions
4e Compared to Trad D&D; What You Lose, What You Gain
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<blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 7537563" data-attributes="member: 82106"><p>Well, I think that once you have a uniform resolution mechanic that starts to cover everything (there ARE actually still a goodly number of questions even in 4e for the GM to noodle on, but at least the basic approach is well-understood and well-explicated) then it starts to be hard NOT to have this sort of parity. It is certainly possible though.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Well, the 1e wizard is in a similar position in terms of the chances of success being almost arbitrarily under DM control. What does a fireball do to a tank? What happens if I drop a Wall of Fire on top of it? Does it get hot inside? Does the crew suffocate? What about Stinking Cloud, or Cloud Kill? How about the Druid's Creeping Doom? I mean, there's a jillion ways to attempt to defeat a tank with spells, and about 10 jillion ways it could be adjudicated. This is, of course, why (particularly higher level) AD&D is sort of a 'beauty contest' where you mostly try to impress the DM with how cunning you are, and hope that she will feel obliged to reward said cunning instead of decreeing it ineffective. Of course the DM could simply make up some numbers and toss some dice and call it 'unbiased'. Well, this is why I said it was 'make up something and toss some dice'. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Well, you COULD try to get the DM to let you leverage your various Thief Skills. Hide in Shadows COULD be utilized to find a blind spot at the side of the tank. Find/Remove Traps could be used to jam up the works of some weapon system. Pick Locks could obviously get you an open hatch, etc. Of course this is all up to the DM and not exactly in line with the hard line taken by Gygax in the DMG. IMHO however he would have played it that way, as long as the player was genuinely trying to find ways to extrapolate his character's existing skills in a fairly logical way. Of course, this might still produce only sub-50% success rates, depending on how harsh the DM is in meting out penalties.</p><p></p><p>2e is a bit less crazy, but not much. The combat rules are still extremely unclear, although the game does include the, fairly obscure, ability check rule as well as NWPs potentially. None of those give exactly stellar rates of success though.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="AbdulAlhazred, post: 7537563, member: 82106"] Well, I think that once you have a uniform resolution mechanic that starts to cover everything (there ARE actually still a goodly number of questions even in 4e for the GM to noodle on, but at least the basic approach is well-understood and well-explicated) then it starts to be hard NOT to have this sort of parity. It is certainly possible though. Well, the 1e wizard is in a similar position in terms of the chances of success being almost arbitrarily under DM control. What does a fireball do to a tank? What happens if I drop a Wall of Fire on top of it? Does it get hot inside? Does the crew suffocate? What about Stinking Cloud, or Cloud Kill? How about the Druid's Creeping Doom? I mean, there's a jillion ways to attempt to defeat a tank with spells, and about 10 jillion ways it could be adjudicated. This is, of course, why (particularly higher level) AD&D is sort of a 'beauty contest' where you mostly try to impress the DM with how cunning you are, and hope that she will feel obliged to reward said cunning instead of decreeing it ineffective. Of course the DM could simply make up some numbers and toss some dice and call it 'unbiased'. Well, this is why I said it was 'make up something and toss some dice'. Well, you COULD try to get the DM to let you leverage your various Thief Skills. Hide in Shadows COULD be utilized to find a blind spot at the side of the tank. Find/Remove Traps could be used to jam up the works of some weapon system. Pick Locks could obviously get you an open hatch, etc. Of course this is all up to the DM and not exactly in line with the hard line taken by Gygax in the DMG. IMHO however he would have played it that way, as long as the player was genuinely trying to find ways to extrapolate his character's existing skills in a fairly logical way. Of course, this might still produce only sub-50% success rates, depending on how harsh the DM is in meting out penalties. 2e is a bit less crazy, but not much. The combat rules are still extremely unclear, although the game does include the, fairly obscure, ability check rule as well as NWPs potentially. None of those give exactly stellar rates of success though. [/QUOTE]
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4e Compared to Trad D&D; What You Lose, What You Gain
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