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Message: <blockquote data-quote="smathis" data-source="post: 4216075" data-attributes="member: 56465">I have the same sort of concern but in retrospect I would argue that D&D has always been about taking someone who was a weak Hero to more powerful levels of being a Hero.Sure, we started out as 1st-Level Magic Users. But we never started out in an "Apprentice" class or a "Rat Catcher" or "Orphan" class. That's never been a part of the D&D experience. WHFRP? Yes. D&D? No.One of the reasons I liked Darkness & Dread so much was because it tacked on this possibility to 3e. But, really, even with the careers/classes listed in Darkness & Dread, it was not preferable to have a party composed of, say, a KennelMaster, a Veteran and a Sorcerer in the rules-as-written. The sorcerer would outclass the other two. But at least the option was on the table.I agree that 4e will not support the Apprentice-to-Archmage story arc. But I'd posit that no version of D&D supported it well. 0-level play would not be a hack unique to 4e. Groups have been doing it since at least 2e and I've read many posts that suggest it was pretty common in 3e as well.I think 4e makes it a little easier though. But I don't think we'd know for sure until we see a PHB and a DMG. Just have the PCs accumulate their powers bit-by-bit, as they start to fill their heroic shoes.Assuming a three-stage 0-level tier, I don't think it would be too terrible. But that's speculation.I'm guessing that the 4e design team ramped up the numbers for 1st level because it supported the math better and because they realized that most groups preferred starting at level-3 or higher. While I'm a fan of zero-to-hero play, I'll be the first to admit I'm a minority -- at least in the groups I've been associated with.Perhaps a good compromise would be to have players recount their previous lives in flashback vignettes. Also, framing their experience in a world where Apprenticeships were brief and adulthood came on fast may help. Think more "Song of Ice and Fire" than "Bilbo and the Shire".That way, the vignettes become more stories of their childhood and how they grew up, rather than playing out a 10-year apprenticeship to a Wizard. It could also be a nice way to introduce NPCs or connections to the PCs when they really need them.</blockquote>

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