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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 3735232" data-attributes="member: 4937">They keep saying that, but there are only 18 numbers between 1 and 20 and there is only so much you can do in that range without making things more complicated.&nbsp; More monsters plus more complication doesn't necessarily scare me (I regularly do both already), but it will turn all these optimists who have impressed on 4E all thier hopes and dreams for a simplier faster system into raving haters faster than I can type out a 5 paragraph rant.Anyway, I don't see how they can change the math and make the game simplier without turning the system into D36 or something.&nbsp; Forget the books, I'm not buying 20 new dice. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink&nbsp; &nbsp; ;)"&nbsp; data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />Actually, that's not quite right either.&nbsp; The big problem with the 3rd has with groups is the same problem D&amp;D has always had - large groups of mooks become ineffectual against PC's as soon as the PC's AC approaches the level that the mooks need a 20 to hit.&nbsp; Additionally, right around that time you get area of effect spells, and then its just a matter of whether you want to cleave the mooks down or waste a fireball on them to save the party the loss of a dozen or so hit points amongst them. How much XP you give for laying waste to mooks is much less of a problem.&nbsp; I've been using my judgement when assigning EL's in situations that the rules don't handle well for the last five years or so.&nbsp;&nbsp; It's not a big problem to give relative XP depending on the strengths of the party and the situation.&nbsp; What Mearls seems to be suggesting is that they can make both mooks less dangerous at low levels and more dangerous at high levels.&nbsp; That's going to be quite a magic trick.&nbsp; The only way I've figured how it could be done thus far is to make monster power level relative to the PC's, and that's not going to be less complicated than just adjusting the XP.If someone wants to let me in on the magic trick, I'd be happy to hear it.&nbsp; Until then, I remain a skeptic.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 3735232, member: 4937"] They keep saying that, but there are only 18 numbers between 1 and 20 and there is only so much you can do in that range without making things more complicated. More monsters plus more complication doesn't necessarily scare me (I regularly do both already), but it will turn all these optimists who have impressed on 4E all thier hopes and dreams for a simplier faster system into raving haters faster than I can type out a 5 paragraph rant. Anyway, I don't see how they can change the math and make the game simplier without turning the system into D36 or something. Forget the books, I'm not buying 20 new dice. ;) Actually, that's not quite right either. The big problem with the 3rd has with groups is the same problem D&D has always had - large groups of mooks become ineffectual against PC's as soon as the PC's AC approaches the level that the mooks need a 20 to hit. Additionally, right around that time you get area of effect spells, and then its just a matter of whether you want to cleave the mooks down or waste a fireball on them to save the party the loss of a dozen or so hit points amongst them. How much XP you give for laying waste to mooks is much less of a problem. I've been using my judgement when assigning EL's in situations that the rules don't handle well for the last five years or so. It's not a big problem to give relative XP depending on the strengths of the party and the situation. What Mearls seems to be suggesting is that they can make both mooks less dangerous at low levels and more dangerous at high levels. That's going to be quite a magic trick. The only way I've figured how it could be done thus far is to make monster power level relative to the PC's, and that's not going to be less complicated than just adjusting the XP. If someone wants to let me in on the magic trick, I'd be happy to hear it. Until then, I remain a skeptic. [/QUOTE]

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