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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 6051833" data-attributes="member: 87792">That's because you're looking at the wrong dial.  Hit points come back at the end of every encounter.  Healing Surges don't.  And damage taken to hit points also affects your healing surges, with only very rare types of magic being able to replenish surges.  If you want things like one-off traps to matter, push the PCs hard enough that the limited resource of healing surges gets stretched for at least some of them; PCs who look as if they are about to run out of surges suddenly get very timid.  Not true.  The reason 4e has an extended rest is because resource management is a part of D&D - extended rest recharges were missing entirely from Orcus and this was one of its major flaws (although not the crippling one).  The reason extended rests are overnight is because in previous editions D&D magic works on an overnight rest.  Not pressing hard enough that healing surges matter is the 4e equivalent to the 15 minute adventuring day, and both stem from the same problem; that outside a dungeon environment (where an 8 hour rest is suicidal) or something equally dangerous, resting overnight is just too easy.  The solution is the same in both cases - either random ninja attacks, or make recovery harder. However in my experience it's much easier to change the extended rest rules through a simple one line house rule than change the spellcaster recovery rules, apparently arbitrarily nerfing the casters while leaving alone (or even buffing) the non-casters.  This is true only if you ignore healing surges.  Which, to be fair, many do.  Except that 4e is less like that than any other version.  When you have a structure like a skill challenge it's not just on DM fiat.  You might not be able to see the scoreboard, but having it there provides the neutral framework you are advocating for.  And with three settings to the difficulty, and the ability to bring in different skills, you have an element of tactical skill in there if that's your thing.  Once again, "Welcome to D&D".  There was nothing unique about the 3e rogue out of combat except trapfinding and trapsense (and even that was shared with e.g. artificers).  Everything else was on skill rolls.   Out of combat the 4e rogue not only has his skills, but also has utility powers.  The Cunning Sneak can also hide in places almost no one else can.  Thieves no only can take an option to almost match the Cunning Sneak for hiding but can gain an out-and-out climb speed if they want to.  The 4e Rogue therefore leaves the 3e rogue in the dust (or even the Pathfinder one; Utility Powers > Rogue Knacks).  To be fair, the pre-3e rogues got some unique things.   This isn't true.  What 4e did was made combat a lot more interesting and take too long.  There is little substantive difference between the 4e skill system and the 3e one (the skills are a bit more streamlined, but that's about it).  The non-casters are more differentiated and more competent, and the casters less overwhelming (although the wizard is still one of the strongest out of combat classes).  What 4e did was put a solid but not terribly assuming rules light skill and magic system that was an incremental improvement on earlier next to a Big! Awesome! Shiny! Flashy! Combat! Engine! that takes some time to build up steam - and the Big! Awesome! Shiny! Flashy! Exclamation! Mark! part of the game draws all the eyeballs and the attention. And the two are a bit of a mismatch.  The little engine that could next to the three ring circus.  Or possibly a professional chamber orchestra trying to perform next to a Nine Inch Nails concert.  That's where the seeming problem with 4e's non combat lies.  Air on a G String is beautiful and the performers and instruments are better than ever - but appreciating it when there's a live performance of Closer going on next door and very little soundproofing can be a challenge.</blockquote>

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