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<blockquote data-quote="LostSoul" data-source="post: 6052261" data-attributes="member: 386">I agree.&nbsp; It seems like a lot of people don't approach the game that way, and I wonder why.&nbsp; Assuming that's true, is there a flaw in the text somewhere, or is it something else?(I did my best in my hack to make this impossible.&nbsp; I tried to make it so that, without engaging the narrative, you could not proceed with resolution.&nbsp; You would not have enough information to set DCs or modifiers to the d20 roll.)Yeah, when you are dealing with a skill challenge there's another step to consider: what does the action of the PC, when cast as a success or failure in a skill challenge, mean to the resolution of that skill challenge?&nbsp; I personally find this tricky to deal with in some circumstances and trivially easy in others.In the last game I played there wasn't really any combat.&nbsp; One PC was trying to gather sacrifices from town as offerings to vine horrors in the nearby forest, hoping that the vine horrors would give her valuable information.&nbsp; The basic procedure was this: She'd take an abstract action to find a mark.&nbsp; Then she'd subdue him.&nbsp; Then she'd steal him away.As we were playing I realized that, without any kind of structure - like the one provided by skill challenges - I could call for an endless series of checks.&nbsp; Or none.&nbsp; I didn't really have any basis on which to make that judgement call.&nbsp; I wasn't tracking the movement of each NPC through town at every single moment of the day!What I did was use a &quot;Reaction Roll&quot; to set the number of successes needed.&nbsp; (Actually, since we've been playing for a while in-game time, there's a default Reaction, so I didn't even need to do that.)&nbsp; She had a good &quot;Reaction&quot; with the townspeople - they really trust and like her - meaning 2 successes before 4 failures.Anyway.&nbsp; I don't know if I'd use a skill challenge to handle sneaking into a dungeon or fortress.&nbsp; I think the difference is that, when I have the specific details of the situation - map keys and who is where doing what - then I'll use individual rolls.&nbsp; When I have an abstract situation - I don't have a map, I don't know where the NPCs are or what they're doing - then I'll use a skill challenge.&nbsp; In the abstract I think it's easier to maintain player agency with a skill challenge, but if you have concrete details then I think a skill challenge can harm player agency.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="LostSoul, post: 6052261, member: 386"] I agree. It seems like a lot of people don't approach the game that way, and I wonder why. Assuming that's true, is there a flaw in the text somewhere, or is it something else? (I did my best in my hack to make this impossible. I tried to make it so that, without engaging the narrative, you could not proceed with resolution. You would not have enough information to set DCs or modifiers to the d20 roll.) Yeah, when you are dealing with a skill challenge there's another step to consider: what does the action of the PC, when cast as a success or failure in a skill challenge, mean to the resolution of that skill challenge? I personally find this tricky to deal with in some circumstances and trivially easy in others. In the last game I played there wasn't really any combat. One PC was trying to gather sacrifices from town as offerings to vine horrors in the nearby forest, hoping that the vine horrors would give her valuable information. The basic procedure was this: She'd take an abstract action to find a mark. Then she'd subdue him. Then she'd steal him away. As we were playing I realized that, without any kind of structure - like the one provided by skill challenges - I could call for an endless series of checks. Or none. I didn't really have any basis on which to make that judgement call. I wasn't tracking the movement of each NPC through town at every single moment of the day! What I did was use a "Reaction Roll" to set the number of successes needed. (Actually, since we've been playing for a while in-game time, there's a default Reaction, so I didn't even need to do that.) She had a good "Reaction" with the townspeople - they really trust and like her - meaning 2 successes before 4 failures. Anyway. I don't know if I'd use a skill challenge to handle sneaking into a dungeon or fortress. I think the difference is that, when I have the specific details of the situation - map keys and who is where doing what - then I'll use individual rolls. When I have an abstract situation - I don't have a map, I don't know where the NPCs are or what they're doing - then I'll use a skill challenge. In the abstract I think it's easier to maintain player agency with a skill challenge, but if you have concrete details then I think a skill challenge can harm player agency. [/QUOTE]

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