Reply to thread

Message

<blockquote data-quote="Argyle King" data-source="post: 6052394" data-attributes="member: 58416">The problem I had was that players never felt the need&nbsp; to talk to most npcs because they (the players) were so powerful&nbsp; compared to the world around them that it was hard to not view brute&nbsp; force and violence as the best answers to everything.As I've&nbsp; said in past threads, I have no problem with combat.&nbsp; I highly enjoy&nbsp; it.&nbsp; However, it tends to get a little old --even as a player myself--&nbsp; when the weekly D&amp;D game turns into little more than simply showing&nbsp; up to squash a few encounters and then go home.&nbsp; At one point, I&nbsp; honestly feel as though more thought was put into playing Descent when&nbsp; the group would break that out than what we were putting into D&amp;D at&nbsp; the time.Toward the end, when I was running a game, I made some tweaks which made my enjoyment of the game a lot better.&nbsp; I feel I learned how to get the results I wanted.&nbsp; Oddly, I found that doing so meant ignoring a lot of the official advice given by WoTC.&nbsp; I will always agree that 4E is/was a very easy game to learn and play.&nbsp; It's an extremely easy game to get off the ground and get moving.&nbsp; What I found difficult was when I wanted to do more than simply get to that minimum bar required to move the game forward; when I wanted to delve deeper into the experience.&nbsp; By the time I had started to figure out how to do it, Essentials was released and changed the direction of the game.&nbsp; By the time I figured it out, the game was being put to pasture in favor of a new edition.The other thing I found difficult, and it was something which surprised me greatly, was that I had a tougher time teaching 4E to people who had never played rpgs before.&nbsp; I found that surprising because the structure of the game was something I found very easy, and teaching people who had played previous editions of D&amp;D to play 4E was not problematic at all.&nbsp; For some reason, the same was not true when I sat down with people who were completely new to the concept of a rpg.What was even more surprising about that difficulty was that I seemed to have a relatively easy time teaching the same group of new-comers a different game which tends to be viewed as being difficult by many of the D&amp;D players I know.&nbsp; I think part of the problem was how things worked out in actual play of 4E versus how things were imagined in the mind's eye.&nbsp; I remember one of the people I was teaching having a really tough time grasping why he could only use certain weapons with a barbarian power.&nbsp; The same guy was confused about what exactly was going on with the Grab action as well because it didn't seem to have the effect on an enemy that he thought it would.&nbsp;&nbsp; &quot;Ze game will remain ze same!&quot;Apparently, D&amp;D players care about more than grappling rules.&nbsp; Who would have thought?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Argyle King, post: 6052394, member: 58416"] The problem I had was that players never felt the need to talk to most npcs because they (the players) were so powerful compared to the world around them that it was hard to not view brute force and violence as the best answers to everything. As I've said in past threads, I have no problem with combat. I highly enjoy it. However, it tends to get a little old --even as a player myself-- when the weekly D&D game turns into little more than simply showing up to squash a few encounters and then go home. At one point, I honestly feel as though more thought was put into playing Descent when the group would break that out than what we were putting into D&D at the time. Toward the end, when I was running a game, I made some tweaks which made my enjoyment of the game a lot better. I feel I learned how to get the results I wanted. Oddly, I found that doing so meant ignoring a lot of the official advice given by WoTC. I will always agree that 4E is/was a very easy game to learn and play. It's an extremely easy game to get off the ground and get moving. What I found difficult was when I wanted to do more than simply get to that minimum bar required to move the game forward; when I wanted to delve deeper into the experience. By the time I had started to figure out how to do it, Essentials was released and changed the direction of the game. By the time I figured it out, the game was being put to pasture in favor of a new edition. The other thing I found difficult, and it was something which surprised me greatly, was that I had a tougher time teaching 4E to people who had never played rpgs before. I found that surprising because the structure of the game was something I found very easy, and teaching people who had played previous editions of D&D to play 4E was not problematic at all. For some reason, the same was not true when I sat down with people who were completely new to the concept of a rpg. What was even more surprising about that difficulty was that I seemed to have a relatively easy time teaching the same group of new-comers a different game which tends to be viewed as being difficult by many of the D&D players I know. I think part of the problem was how things worked out in actual play of 4E versus how things were imagined in the mind's eye. I remember one of the people I was teaching having a really tough time grasping why he could only use certain weapons with a barbarian power. The same guy was confused about what exactly was going on with the Grab action as well because it didn't seem to have the effect on an enemy that he thought it would. [I] "Ze game will remain ze same!"[/I] Apparently, D&D players care about more than grappling rules. Who would have thought? [/QUOTE]

Verification