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<blockquote data-quote="Blackbrrd" data-source="post: 6053836" data-attributes="member: 63962">Well, I have found the discussion here pretty civil. You did say: &quot; it was simply impossible to keep dramatic tension up with so many die&nbsp; rolls and no decisions to make except 'what skill to roll next'&quot;. That sounded like you were doing straight up dice rolling. Which is probably why you got that response.If you look at the majority of the posts here, I think you will find that they are a bit more reasonable, talking about the subject of the thread, 4e and encounter building and not people doing it wrong. It's more about talking why people are having problems with 4e - and suggestions from DM's or players that have found a way to run for instance skill challenges in a more interesting way.Anyway, in my opinion, part of the problem is how skill challenges are presented both in premade modules and the PHB/DMG as noted earlier in the tread. Pemerton quoted both here: <a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/d-d-pathfinder/331908-4e-encounter-design-why-does-doesnt-work-you-9.html#post6052282" target="_blank">http://www.enworld.org/forum/d-d-pathfinder/331908-4e-encounter-design-why-does-doesnt-work-you-9.html#post6052282</a> The relevant rules are spread over two different rulebooks and three different sections. Not good.In addition, I do think that the rules as presented are a bit narrow. I think they should give examples of players coming up with ideas that make the skill challenge irrelevant, or changes it completely. 4e isn't a computer game, but a role playing game. Presentation is what I find as the weaker point of 4e. The modules that should have helped open the DM's eyes instead made me want to poke my eyes out.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Blackbrrd, post: 6053836, member: 63962"] Well, I have found the discussion here pretty civil. You did say: " it was simply impossible to keep dramatic tension up with so many die rolls and no decisions to make except 'what skill to roll next'". That sounded like you were doing straight up dice rolling. Which is probably why you got that response. If you look at the majority of the posts here, I think you will find that they are a bit more reasonable, talking about the subject of the thread, 4e and encounter building and not people doing it wrong. It's more about talking why people are having problems with 4e - and suggestions from DM's or players that have found a way to run for instance skill challenges in a more interesting way. Anyway, in my opinion, part of the problem is how skill challenges are presented both in premade modules and the PHB/DMG as noted earlier in the tread. Pemerton quoted both here: [URL]http://www.enworld.org/forum/d-d-pathfinder/331908-4e-encounter-design-why-does-doesnt-work-you-9.html#post6052282[/URL] The relevant rules are spread over two different rulebooks and three different sections. Not good. In addition, I do think that the rules as presented are a bit narrow. I think they should give examples of players coming up with ideas that make the skill challenge irrelevant, or changes it completely. 4e isn't a computer game, but a role playing game. Presentation is what I find as the weaker point of 4e. The modules that should have helped open the DM's eyes instead made me want to poke my eyes out. [/QUOTE]

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