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<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 4512931" data-attributes="member: 22779">Well, 4 or 5, tomato tomahto.&nbsp; I'm not terribly fussed either way.&nbsp; The point is well taken.It all comes down to how 3e builds monsters.&nbsp; The assumption is that a CR=Average party level encounter (with only 1 monster, not EL=APL), you will have the same effect as a multiple CR encounter where EL=APL.&nbsp; This is simply not true and cannot be true.&nbsp; As CR increases, HD increases (obviously) but also stats increase and special abilities as well.&nbsp; So the attack bonus of a CR 5 creature is not simply 1 higher than a CR 4 creature, it's 2 or 3 higher.&nbsp; And a CR 6 creature is 2 or 3 higher than that.&nbsp; Now, AC somewhat scales by level, to some degree.&nbsp; So, if you are average to be hit by a CR 6 creature, then a CR 4 creature, because its +2-4 lower on its attack bonus, has a much, much more difficult time to hit you.&nbsp; Go even lower, and the creatures are only hitting on 20's.Note, the numbers here are spit balling, I'm not saying it's always true.&nbsp; I find that you can go much higher than EL=APL with classed humanoids and get a fairly decent encounter.&nbsp; This is because classed humanoids are so much weaker than monsters of an equivalent CR.&nbsp; Going EL+3 or 4 with classed humanoids allows you to make a challenging encounter with multiple opponents without wiping the floor with the party.&nbsp; Go EL +3 or 4 with, say, large grappling monsters (or worse, huge grappling monsters) and you just TPK'd.This all comes down to the EL/CR system which assumes that an equivalent EL encounter will use 20% of your resources.&nbsp; But, when you only have one opponent, it can only take those 20% from one or maybe 2 PC's.&nbsp; Thus, it has to be much stronger in order to have any effect.&nbsp; Which leads to a very large jump in power levels between CR's.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 4512931, member: 22779"] Well, 4 or 5, tomato tomahto. I'm not terribly fussed either way. The point is well taken. It all comes down to how 3e builds monsters. The assumption is that a CR=Average party level encounter (with only 1 monster, not EL=APL), you will have the same effect as a multiple CR encounter where EL=APL. This is simply not true and cannot be true. As CR increases, HD increases (obviously) but also stats increase and special abilities as well. So the attack bonus of a CR 5 creature is not simply 1 higher than a CR 4 creature, it's 2 or 3 higher. And a CR 6 creature is 2 or 3 higher than that. Now, AC somewhat scales by level, to some degree. So, if you are average to be hit by a CR 6 creature, then a CR 4 creature, because its +2-4 lower on its attack bonus, has a much, much more difficult time to hit you. Go even lower, and the creatures are only hitting on 20's. Note, the numbers here are spit balling, I'm not saying it's always true. I find that you can go much higher than EL=APL with classed humanoids and get a fairly decent encounter. This is because classed humanoids are so much weaker than monsters of an equivalent CR. Going EL+3 or 4 with classed humanoids allows you to make a challenging encounter with multiple opponents without wiping the floor with the party. Go EL +3 or 4 with, say, large grappling monsters (or worse, huge grappling monsters) and you just TPK'd. This all comes down to the EL/CR system which assumes that an equivalent EL encounter will use 20% of your resources. But, when you only have one opponent, it can only take those 20% from one or maybe 2 PC's. Thus, it has to be much stronger in order to have any effect. Which leads to a very large jump in power levels between CR's. [/QUOTE]

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