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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Puggins" data-source="post: 4099573" data-attributes="member: 12386">Your definition of injury hinges on hit points, which is itself an abstraction.  I define a "long term injury" as one that impairs your ability.  The 8th level fighter who is down to 1 hit point from his normal 90hp total might be "injured" to you, but he can still swing swords with the best of them.  Forget the adrenaline rush- imagine said fighter going to sleep and being woken up an hour later as more goblins rush in to attack.  Said adrenaline is gone, and he's close to dying outright due to a minor scratch, but until then he is swinging his sword with all the power and all the skill he has at full health.  This defies all logic if you consider a fighter at 1 hit point to be seriously or critically injured.  On the other hand, if 1hp meansthat fighter is merely exhausted to the point of collapse, then you can make a good case for suspension of disbelief.While your other arguments are valid and sometimes merely a difference in opinion, this one is plainly wrong.  Serious, debilitating injury has never been modeled.  The closest we ever got was ability damage, but since ability damage was an entirely different form of attack rather than a form of injury, even that wasn't very close.It's an equal stretch.  There's very little difference.  In 3.5e, the fighter takes a couple days to heal his bumps and bruises.  In 4e, they heal overnight.  There is no serious injury that impairs his ability to fight or threatens his life.You're forming an artificial difference.  A serious injury is not one that take a couple of days to heal- a serious injury is one that is DANGEROUS to your ongoing health.  Neither 3.5e or 4e have such injuries.  You never have to worry about kidney failure, which will kill you in days, or a broken arm that hinders your ability to fight.  the hit point abstraction is horrible, horrible, HORRIBLE for modeling injury, since there are no consequences for dropping from 90hp to 1hp.  The hit point abstraction, on the other hand, is great for modeling heroic behavior and the ability to survive superficial punishment.  Both 3.5e and 4e work fine this way.  4e merely makes the whole thing more consistent in assuming no serious injuries normally occur before you're incapacitated.</blockquote>

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