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<blockquote data-quote="Jeff Wilder" data-source="post: 4099659" data-attributes="member: 5122">Only to the extent that it doesn't provide any way to model long-term injury.If that is simply not important to you -- if you're okay with the binary states of &quot;perfectly fine&quot; and &quot;dead&quot; -- then it's absolutely not inferior.I'm not okay with that, and nor are a lot of us.&nbsp; A lot of us want a game that has a heavy tactical combat component to at least model &quot;perfectly fine,&quot; &quot;injured, but gimme a week,&quot; and &quot;dead.&quot;&nbsp; For a game so much about combat, lacking that breaks my suspension of disbelief badly.Look, I'm not comparing 4E to a videogame (for one thing, a game like Temple of Elemental Evil, for all its faults, does model long-term injury), but one of the reasons I don't play MMORPGs is that they break my suspension of disbelief.&nbsp; The encounter regeneration, the hot elf babe &quot;LOL&quot;ing all over the place and taking about her new two-terabyte drive, and yes, the near-instant healing ... all of those, and more, break my suspension of disbelief to the point that I don't enjoy MMORPGs.Do I think RPGs are superior?&nbsp; Well, if you define superior as &quot;something I enjoy doing,&quot; then obviously.&nbsp; But only in that way.&nbsp; Those of you that enjoy MMORPGs, please do continue to do so.&nbsp; And those of you that will enjoy 4E, please do.&nbsp; Really.Just don't try to tell me (and I know you, specifically, are not doing so, Fitz) that it's okay that 4E doesn't model long-term injury, because &quot;D&amp;D never has.&quot;&nbsp; First, that's simply not true -- D&amp;D has always modeled long-term injury -- and second, it's okay for you.I admit that I don't understand why it's okay for you -- which doesn't mean I don't understand the arguments, as I very well do, and have been making arguments for abstract HP for longer than most of you have probably been playing -- but that doesn't matter.&nbsp; I don't understand why people enjoying &quot;LOL&quot;ing elf babes, either.What isn't okay is people continuing to say D&amp;D has never modeled long-term injury.&nbsp; Because it's simply not true.&nbsp; The modeling has been abstract and often damned hokey, but it's been at least a nod in the direction of maintaining verisimilitude.&nbsp; And as I've said in a couple of threads about 4E, I'm easy.&nbsp; I want to suspend my disbelief.&nbsp; Just give me a justification for the 6HM (six-hour miracle), or give me injury that needs magic or time, and I'll be A-OK.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Jeff Wilder, post: 4099659, member: 5122"] Only to the extent that it doesn't provide any way to model long-term injury. If that is simply not important to you -- if you're okay with the binary states of "perfectly fine" and "dead" -- then it's absolutely not inferior. I'm not okay with that, and nor are a lot of us. A lot of us want a game that has a heavy tactical combat component to at least model "perfectly fine," "injured, but gimme a week," and "dead." For a game so much about combat, lacking that breaks my suspension of disbelief badly. Look, I'm not comparing 4E to a videogame (for one thing, a game like [i]Temple of Elemental Evil[/i], for all its faults, does model long-term injury), but one of the reasons I don't play MMORPGs is that they break my suspension of disbelief. The encounter regeneration, the hot elf babe "LOL"ing all over the place and taking about her new two-terabyte drive, and yes, the near-instant healing ... all of those, and more, break my suspension of disbelief to the point that I don't enjoy MMORPGs. Do I think RPGs are superior? Well, if you define superior as "something I enjoy doing," then obviously. But only in that way. Those of you that enjoy MMORPGs, please do continue to do so. And those of you that will enjoy 4E, please do. Really. Just don't try to tell me (and I know you, specifically, are not doing so, Fitz) that it's okay that 4E doesn't model long-term injury, because "D&D never has." First, that's simply not true -- D&D has always modeled long-term injury -- and second, it's okay [i]for you[/i]. I admit that I don't understand why it's okay for you -- which doesn't mean I don't understand the arguments, as I very well do, and have been making arguments for abstract HP for longer than most of you have probably been playing -- but that doesn't matter. I don't understand why people enjoying "LOL"ing elf babes, either. What isn't okay is people continuing to say D&D has never modeled long-term injury. Because it's simply not true. The modeling has been abstract and often damned hokey, but it's been at least a nod in the direction of maintaining verisimilitude. And as I've said in a couple of threads about 4E, I'm [i]easy[/i]. I [i]want[/i] to suspend my disbelief. Just give me a justification for the 6HM (six-hour miracle), or give me injury that needs magic or time, and I'll be A-OK. [/QUOTE]

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