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Message: <blockquote data-quote="jodyjohnson" data-source="post: 5834187" data-attributes="member: 5590">Pre-4e for me means higher damage to HP ratios & shorter combats in rounds.More effective special effects.Smaller range of levels and longer effective span of usefulness for creatures.Damage vs. HP, combat length:For me, one of the big changes in feel was the 24-30 hp Kobold you had to beat down with multiple blows.  A 10-12 hp Kobold is closer to the 1d4 HP Kobolds of old with an adjustment for the much higher average damage output of PCs.  Sure I like minions and continue to use them but they are too easy to kill (check how many old school modules after 1980 still had minimum or very low end HP).There's a part of me that would like to go back to 1e/2e hit points but the math is too brutal.  And those original low hit points aren't really compatible with 3e/4e stat bonuses and 4e damage feats, not to mention Encounter and Daily powers.  If I could give up all the things I like about 4e I would switch to an OSR game.  Plus an elite with 2d4 HP or a solo with 5d4 HP isn't much of a difference.Effectiveness of special attacks:I like the narrative and idea of Save or Die but don't care for how player's use them to bypass HP in pre-4e.  Late 4e has made them slightly more effective for creatures.  I think lower HP and a rider that creatures falling below 0 with an active effect might help the narrative without making them more appealing when players really just want an enemy dead.  As a PC it adds a little more tension to clear an effect in case a creature gets a lucky crit.Limited level range:If 1e/2e was really playable between 1st and 10th and 3e was most enjoyable from 1st to maybe 14th then spreading the math gains of previous editions from 1 to 20th makes some sense.My main concern would be that by 11+ PCs have so many ways to boost damage that the lower monster HP really makes things too easy (PC hp is really only 6-11 lower across all levels).  Limiting stats helps somewhat but WotC keeps solving the slower combats issue on multiple fronts but primarily by upping damage combos.</blockquote>

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