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4E is like WoW (NOT!)
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<blockquote data-quote="king_ghidorah" data-source="post: 4120978" data-attributes="member: 18404"><p>I'm not sure all of your examples are good ones either. </p><p></p><p>* Roles are about half refined versions of character classes and half the kinds of builds described (with similar names) in Champions supplements c. 1986 for kinds of superhero characters, with similar descriptions. That's the first thing I though of, in fact, when I saw the roles in City of Heroes, and the first thing I thought of when WotC mentioned them.</p><p>* The aggro mechanics in MMORPGs work very differently than those mentioned in 4e, so they make poor comparisons. It's clear by looking at them that the designers saw a problem with tactical play -- that the fighters and similar characters who have always been cast as being to protect the softer spellcasters had no such abilities -- considered aggro mechanics, and threw them out and re-engineered something that feels more like it belongs in a skirmish miniatures game. If the defender "aggro" mechanics feel like anything, they feel like a minis game, now WoW-style aggro.</p><p>* Paragon paths seem to equal 3e prestige classes/d20 Modern Advanced classes, perhaps with a touch of d20 Modern talent trees more than WoW talent trees. And those elements were in 3e before there was even a beta of WoW.</p><p></p><p>The truth is, there <strong>is</strong> some cross-influence between CRPGs/MMORPGs and rpgs -- a lot of back and forth influence between them. This is health and good. An argument that 4e just is ripping off WoW or that there is no influence requires a lot of ignoring previous history and contraindications of influences outside of WoW. 4e instead looks like the designers have played lots of games -- PnP, CRPG, minis, and more -- and stolen what they thought was cool and then implemented some of their own new ideas. Which seems to be the way most people work.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="king_ghidorah, post: 4120978, member: 18404"] I'm not sure all of your examples are good ones either. * Roles are about half refined versions of character classes and half the kinds of builds described (with similar names) in Champions supplements c. 1986 for kinds of superhero characters, with similar descriptions. That's the first thing I though of, in fact, when I saw the roles in City of Heroes, and the first thing I thought of when WotC mentioned them. * The aggro mechanics in MMORPGs work very differently than those mentioned in 4e, so they make poor comparisons. It's clear by looking at them that the designers saw a problem with tactical play -- that the fighters and similar characters who have always been cast as being to protect the softer spellcasters had no such abilities -- considered aggro mechanics, and threw them out and re-engineered something that feels more like it belongs in a skirmish miniatures game. If the defender "aggro" mechanics feel like anything, they feel like a minis game, now WoW-style aggro. * Paragon paths seem to equal 3e prestige classes/d20 Modern Advanced classes, perhaps with a touch of d20 Modern talent trees more than WoW talent trees. And those elements were in 3e before there was even a beta of WoW. The truth is, there [B]is[/B] some cross-influence between CRPGs/MMORPGs and rpgs -- a lot of back and forth influence between them. This is health and good. An argument that 4e just is ripping off WoW or that there is no influence requires a lot of ignoring previous history and contraindications of influences outside of WoW. 4e instead looks like the designers have played lots of games -- PnP, CRPG, minis, and more -- and stolen what they thought was cool and then implemented some of their own new ideas. Which seems to be the way most people work. [/QUOTE]
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