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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
4E Liker - anything you worry about?
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<blockquote data-quote="Ipissimus" data-source="post: 4185708" data-attributes="member: 41514"><p>Fear: That Lawful and Chaotic won't be alignment axises except at the extremes (Lawful Good and Chaotic Evil).</p><p></p><p>Fear: Cursed magic items won't be in.</p><p></p><p>Concern: That multiclassing will only give you another class' powers and not class abilities. And that true, deep, multiclassing will be handled by new hybrid classes that aren't as effective in play as the two parent classes or so powerful that they overpower the core classes (though, that'd be going against history).</p><p></p><p>Concern: Rather than either multiple conditions will be hard to track or large combat will be hard to control, put both of them together and running a large combat (that seems to be the focus of 4E combat) with a multitude of different conditions, effects and abilities popping off on both sides will cause migraines, forgetfulness and calls for 'do-overs'. Also... say you have a party of 6 1st level PCs vs. 24 Kobald Minions. One Kobald gets hit with so many conditions over the course of the encounter that the stack of magnetic markers under him makes it look like he's either flying or on top of a pillar. And then you have to remember what each colour marker represents and what effect it has on him... guess you shouldn't have named him Pun-pun Meepo but still...</p><p></p><p>Concern: Rituals will be so cheap, easy and effective that everyone will take the Ritual Training feat and pop off divinations between encounters.</p><p></p><p>Dislike: I was very, very happy with the decision to merge some skills, particularly Move Silently/Hide to Stealth and Listen/Spot to Perception. I also perfectly understand why one would keep Diplomacy and Intimidate separate, since you might want to create a stock uncouth strongman or a witty but nonthreatening halfling rogue. But I'm afraid that Bluff and Diplomacy often cross swords at my table in the same way as Move Silently and Hide did. It gets particularly confusing when you're lying to someone and trying to improve their attitude to you at the same time. In addition, I'm afraid it nerfs the already suboptimal choice of playing a 'face' character in DnD since they have to buy 2 skills with their precious allotment where far more combat-centric powers (like Stealth) have been amalgamated.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ipissimus, post: 4185708, member: 41514"] Fear: That Lawful and Chaotic won't be alignment axises except at the extremes (Lawful Good and Chaotic Evil). Fear: Cursed magic items won't be in. Concern: That multiclassing will only give you another class' powers and not class abilities. And that true, deep, multiclassing will be handled by new hybrid classes that aren't as effective in play as the two parent classes or so powerful that they overpower the core classes (though, that'd be going against history). Concern: Rather than either multiple conditions will be hard to track or large combat will be hard to control, put both of them together and running a large combat (that seems to be the focus of 4E combat) with a multitude of different conditions, effects and abilities popping off on both sides will cause migraines, forgetfulness and calls for 'do-overs'. Also... say you have a party of 6 1st level PCs vs. 24 Kobald Minions. One Kobald gets hit with so many conditions over the course of the encounter that the stack of magnetic markers under him makes it look like he's either flying or on top of a pillar. And then you have to remember what each colour marker represents and what effect it has on him... guess you shouldn't have named him Pun-pun Meepo but still... Concern: Rituals will be so cheap, easy and effective that everyone will take the Ritual Training feat and pop off divinations between encounters. Dislike: I was very, very happy with the decision to merge some skills, particularly Move Silently/Hide to Stealth and Listen/Spot to Perception. I also perfectly understand why one would keep Diplomacy and Intimidate separate, since you might want to create a stock uncouth strongman or a witty but nonthreatening halfling rogue. But I'm afraid that Bluff and Diplomacy often cross swords at my table in the same way as Move Silently and Hide did. It gets particularly confusing when you're lying to someone and trying to improve their attitude to you at the same time. In addition, I'm afraid it nerfs the already suboptimal choice of playing a 'face' character in DnD since they have to buy 2 skills with their precious allotment where far more combat-centric powers (like Stealth) have been amalgamated. [/QUOTE]
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