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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
4e limit of beatability
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<blockquote data-quote="Lancelot" data-source="post: 5368275" data-attributes="member: 30022"><p>Similar to <strong>renau1g </strong>above, I TPK'ed a 5-man party this week (40 sessions into the campaign, at 19th level) with a level+3 encounter, with some terrain advantage.</p><p></p><p>I used the new "essentials" Red Dragon, as shown on the WotC site. I found dragons, in general, are pretty nasty opponents. You don't have to go crazy-stupid with the encounter difficulty to make it brutal. You just have to play them to the hilt, and then some.</p><p></p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Stay in the air. Keep out of reach of melee opponents.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Grab opponents with claws or bite; fly into the air (high), and drop them.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Go for the Leaders first, and any ranged Strikers. Ignore the Defenders.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Always go for the coup. When a PC drops, take the time to finish them. Don't give them a chance to "kick up", and don't give them a chance to be healed. If you need to, use an Action Point to make sure of it.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Go for the Uber-Round. Don't use Action Points at the start of the combat. Wait until the dragon is nearly bloodied, then Breath Weapon - action point for a big melee attack - move to provoke one or more opportunity attacks - get bloodied - and Breath Weapon again as free action.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Make sure you're using a MM3 or later dragon, and/or update older dragons to the new damage format.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Use terrain that really works to the dragon's advantage. I used lava pools to drop PCs into from a great height (falling damage, then ongoing 30 fire per round until the crawl out of the lava) and a wall of fuming smoke cutting the battlefield in half (the dragon would fly from side-to-side, forcing the PC's to "chase it" to keep it in line of sight).</li> </ul><p>I wouldn't recommend this for a non-expert party or if the stakes are "real". But if the stakes are "non-real", you should use the opportunity to show the party just how deadly dragons can be if you play them like most players play their PCs.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Lancelot, post: 5368275, member: 30022"] Similar to [B]renau1g [/B]above, I TPK'ed a 5-man party this week (40 sessions into the campaign, at 19th level) with a level+3 encounter, with some terrain advantage. I used the new "essentials" Red Dragon, as shown on the WotC site. I found dragons, in general, are pretty nasty opponents. You don't have to go crazy-stupid with the encounter difficulty to make it brutal. You just have to play them to the hilt, and then some. [LIST] [*]Stay in the air. Keep out of reach of melee opponents. [*]Grab opponents with claws or bite; fly into the air (high), and drop them. [*]Go for the Leaders first, and any ranged Strikers. Ignore the Defenders. [*]Always go for the coup. When a PC drops, take the time to finish them. Don't give them a chance to "kick up", and don't give them a chance to be healed. If you need to, use an Action Point to make sure of it. [*]Go for the Uber-Round. Don't use Action Points at the start of the combat. Wait until the dragon is nearly bloodied, then Breath Weapon - action point for a big melee attack - move to provoke one or more opportunity attacks - get bloodied - and Breath Weapon again as free action. [*]Make sure you're using a MM3 or later dragon, and/or update older dragons to the new damage format. [*]Use terrain that really works to the dragon's advantage. I used lava pools to drop PCs into from a great height (falling damage, then ongoing 30 fire per round until the crawl out of the lava) and a wall of fuming smoke cutting the battlefield in half (the dragon would fly from side-to-side, forcing the PC's to "chase it" to keep it in line of sight). [/LIST] I wouldn't recommend this for a non-expert party or if the stakes are "real". But if the stakes are "non-real", you should use the opportunity to show the party just how deadly dragons can be if you play them like most players play their PCs. [/QUOTE]
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